Sam Handwich
Kava Enthusiast
Exactly, I have some Boronguru from KWK. I think I'll mix some of that up to see if it is a little less extreme on the Noble side of the spectrum.
Acetone test results megathread
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@Sam Handwich thanks for posting those. Just in time too as I have some stone coming in the post in the next few days! 
How did you feel after that KK? I felt a bit rough and got some minor GI issues, but perhaps it's because their micro contains makas etc.
I've never tried stone, for some reason N@H doesn't ship to NZ.
I've never tried stone, for some reason N@H doesn't ship to NZ.
Sam Handwich
Kava Enthusiast
No ill effects from the KK. I've only drank it a few times and that was just a tablespoon to top up after the Aluball was empty. It is potent and very heady, so much so that I had trouble getting to sleep afterwards. It seems to be too cheap to be true but so far so good.
Sam Handwich
Kava Enthusiast
D
Deleted User01
The ideal situation would be to get some kind of meter reading so we wouldn't have to be so subjective. In all the tests I have seen, it seems that the stronger heavier kavas have tended to lean toward the darker colors. And it doesn't surprise me that the heavy kavas are rough on the digestive system whether they have Tudei or not. I guess we can say for sure that you should be ready for a potentially rough ride if the kavas are dark yellow. But how can we know for sure if they have Tudei Genes in them or not? It's a tough call and we have to depend on the "honesty" of the vendors and their suppliers. Nice post @Sam Handwich.
verticity
I'm interested in things
That's why it is important to distinguish between hue and saturation. "Hue" refers to the actual color, and "saturation" refers to how dark or light the color is (technically, how much grey is mixed with the color). You can have 2 different noble kavas, and one may appear to be much darker yellow than the other. But that does not mean the darker one is "less noble". The only true indication of whether a kava is noble or tudei, or adulterated, is the hue. So you have to look at the actual color (hue), not just darkness or lightness of the color, when ascertaining nobility. This can be tricky, but not impossible, to do with the naked eye, but is often impossible from looking at a photograph on a computer screen.
verticity
I'm interested in things
One problem with looking at pictures on a computer screen, is that the actual color in the test tube may be outside the RGB gamut of a computer screen. In other words, some colors in the test are actually impossible to represent on a screen. Another problem is that different people's monitors might be calibrated differently.
D
Deleted User01
That's why a numeric value would be most helpful but I guess that type of testing equipment is expensive. Is that what a spectrometer does?
GussWest
Kava Enthusiast
In short, yes. Spectrophotometer provides quantitative analysis of emission wavelength spectra of the sample.
One aspect of this is that there is large variation across machines/bulbs. Every test should be done with a full set of controls on a well-calibrated machine. Even then, there is some art in collecting and interpreting the data.
If Flavokawain B is in fact the main tudei culprit (and IOI in the acetone test), then quantitative HPTLC is still the gold standard. This is an hypothesis I would love to hear an opinion on from Dr. Lebot! I've not had time to go back and look closely at the separation data presented on the youtube vids. Would LOVE to see this data up close!!!
One aspect of this is that there is large variation across machines/bulbs. Every test should be done with a full set of controls on a well-calibrated machine. Even then, there is some art in collecting and interpreting the data.
If Flavokawain B is in fact the main tudei culprit (and IOI in the acetone test), then quantitative HPTLC is still the gold standard. This is an hypothesis I would love to hear an opinion on from Dr. Lebot! I've not had time to go back and look closely at the separation data presented on the youtube vids. Would LOVE to see this data up close!!!
HeadHodge
Bula To Eternity
I know Dr Lebot very well and I talk with him a lot, Gary (Deleted User) also talks with him a lot about this exact thing. When I gave my talk at the 2015 International Kava Conference Dr Lebot had some real good info but I can not tell too much about it because it still has not been published but I can say that your hypothesis true but there are other variables that need to be taken into account and I can not go into that right now because his work is still as yet unpublished. I will say that the results from Isa were very surprising. Aloha.
Chris
GussWest
Kava Enthusiast
Any word on if/when this paper has been submitted/accepted for publication, Chris?
Is there an abstract or pre-print available on this subject?
Nice to hear that my intuition is wagging in the general direction. PLEASE keep us in the loop when this publication becomes available. Excited to hear this work in ongoing and that the details are proving out to be of interest.
If anyone has the Lasme et.al. 2008 as pdf, please shoot me a PM?
Aloha nui loa!
Is there an abstract or pre-print available on this subject?
Nice to hear that my intuition is wagging in the general direction. PLEASE keep us in the loop when this publication becomes available. Excited to hear this work in ongoing and that the details are proving out to be of interest.
If anyone has the Lasme et.al. 2008 as pdf, please shoot me a PM?
Aloha nui loa!
I am pretty sure that Lebot has stated on a number of occasions that it is not fkb, but rather a yet unidentified compund. After all, this mysterious compound is meant to be totally absent from noble.
GussWest
Kava Enthusiast
I missed that morsel. The HPTLC ladder separations are essential to teasing this out, then. Can't wait to see the next publication! I would have thought it would be more than one compound, given the wide range of reported tudei effects.
Patience, grasshopper (said to self).
Patience, grasshopper (said to self).
The compund might be totally unrelated to these effects. I think schmidt speculated it was some kind of a pigment that was exclusively present in non noble cultivars,but I am not sure. The adverse tudei effects do seem to be related high dhm and dhk and perhaps fkv...
verticity
I'm interested in things
There are some chemotypes that unambiguously indicate a kava is tudei, namely 25---- or 52----. The latter could indicate Piper wichmanni (wild kava). But there are some chemotypes that are less clear. In Lebot's paper The Origin and Distribution of Kava (attached) there are some examples of where the chemotype is a more ambiguous indicator. For example there is a cultivar called 'Fock' from Santo Island that is considered to be tudei, but has a chemotype of 265431. Similarly the cultivar 'Palisi' is considered tudei with a chemotype of 265431, and a few others. Also, there is at least one pair of cultivars in that paper, that I can't find right now, where both cultivars have identical chemotypes, but one is considered noble and the other is considered tudei.
This is one of Lebot's seminal papers on kava, and is a great source of chemotype data...