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Did the Maori do kava?

TheKavaSociety

TheKavaSociety

New Zealand
Kava Vendor
Yes, I am also fascinated by these debates. Interestingly, the Polynesians' approach to land/natural resources was very different to ours. They didn't believe anyone could "own" land as none of us created it and yet we all need it survive. Land is a gift of nature that we can merely hope to use. And they had a complex system of managing exclusive use, etc. For instance, those who could use the best land had the biggest responsibilities towards their community. Also, there was no such thing as an "absentee landlord", i.e. someone "owning" the land without actually using it. Obviously there wasn't just one Maori community, but many different tribes and they were constantly fighting for access to those natural resources. The current process of giving compensations for "lost land" is in fact an attempt to restore a temporary division of access to natural resources circa the early 19th century. Since then however, many Maori leaders have adopted the European way of thinking and believe in unconditional ownership of natural resources.
 
Kojo Douglas

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
Land tenure is a very interesting subject, and is usually associated with a cultural discourse that imbues it with sacred meaning. Westerners see land as something that can be owned, and that ownership is a key part of the way we value ourselves, our society, our economy, and our belief in freedom and individualism. Many other cultures see land as something that has to be socially maintained to prevent a "tragedy of the commons." In that case, land is something more ancestral, embodying the story of a people. It is not something you act upon, but act from within. The health of the land is thought to be a reflection of the health of the ancestors, and thus of the present. I wrote a lot about this in my research in Ghana. Many indigenous people see environmental degradation and climate change as the consequences of failed stewardship and alienation from their ancestors.
 
TheKavaSociety

TheKavaSociety

New Zealand
Kava Vendor
I think it's worth remembering that what is now seen as "the Western land tenure system" is a degeneration of a system that existed in the European societies for centuries.

Under Common Law, those with the best land had a set of reciprocal obligations. These obligations were non-monetary, as money was scarce in these societies. Such obligations included maintaining roads and leaving some crops along the roads to be "gleaned" by travellers, providing for the lords, who at that time were considered leaders but had very little power, serving in and providing for militias, etc. These obligations were a matter of honour rather than compulsion, but more was expected of those with better lands. When someone says, "this is taxing work," it harkens back to Common Law when taxes took the form of physical labor.

The introduction of money marked the transition to feudalism, which allowed people to pay a fee (feu) instead of providing direct service. This was *economically* superior, as it allowed for specialization of labor, but it also left the lords in a position of being able to accumulate the taxes or rents. ("Tax," "rent," "mail," and "impost," or "post" all meant the same thing.)

Thus the landlord gradually converted from a person consulted about land disputes, first to a ruler over land and finally as an owner of that land.
 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
Henry said:
The existence of any pre-Maori populations in NZ is EXTREMELY controversial (both politically and academically) in NZ. The "consensus" or perhaps the "mainstream" opinion is that nobody lived in NZ prior to Maori migration from (most likely) Rarotonga. The Maori settlers first explored NZ and then some of them (a few centuries ago) moved to the Chatham islands and became knowns as the Moriori. A very strange society that completely rejected violence, even in self-defense. This decision led to their demise when certain Maori tribes hijacked a British ship and sailed to the Chathams to kill, rape and enslave the Moriori. Still, it's a big philosophical question. Apparently the Moriori really did believe that life based around violence was not worth living at all and as everyone dies anyway, what matters is not survival per se, but living in accordance with one's moral principles. Anyway, the other Maori tribes clearly didn't agree with them. So this is the mainstream idea about the Moriori.

A less mainstream opinion is that the Moriori were not just a Maori tribe, but in fact they were the original inhabitants of New Zealand who had been exterminated by later waves of Polynesian migrants. Most historians think there is no evidence to support this theory, but some people believe it's true. It is a political debate though. According to the official discourse, the Maori settlers were the very first people to touch New Zealand and the only people who could make a claim to gaining "ownership" of the entire natural environment of the country without killing or displacing anyone. This (in theory) gives them a morally high "claim" to New Zealand's natural resources . Higher or stronger than that of the European settlers who might have acquired their land through conquest or trickery. However, if it is true that the Maori themselves killed some other people in order to own their land/resources, then the subsequent European actions may appear (at least to some) to be at least as "legitimate" as those of the Maori. This is why it is such a hugely controversial topic (at least in some circles). But the mainstream view is that when the Maori settlers from Rarotonga arrived to New Zealand it was empty.

We also have more "exotic" theories about the pre-Maori history: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10795590
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That is very interesting. The "mainstream opinion" of radical pacifism kind of reminds me of the Shakers in the US (and England). They were a religious sect that practiced complete celibacy (in theory). They didn't practice marriage--new Shakers came from adoption, and from pregnant women converting. Again, in theory... So, predictably, they died out, except for like 3 people...

Now the theory that ancient Greeks and Egyptians were the first inhabitants of New Zealand is clearly ridiculous. Everyone knows the Vikings were there first. :D
 
nabanga

nabanga

Kava Enthusiast
Deleted User01 said:
Geez, you guys are giving me both a Vocabulary and a Lesson in Latin. But I thank ya. I need all the learning that I can get.
@nabanga, I'm having a heck of a time finding books by your authors though there are lots of other books by other authors. I would like to get a books or books that describe both the Polynesians, their way of life, why they migrated, and were they migrated to and so on. The whole ball of wax. Would you have any particular titles you would recommend. @Henry and @verticity, anyone have any suggestions.
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A few good ones that I have are:
"The Pacific Navigators" = Peter Bellwood
"Ancient Voyagers in the Pacific" - Andrew Sharp
"Vaka Moana - Voyages of the Ancestors" - KR Howe (editor not author)
"Man on the Rim: The peopling of the Pacific" - Alan Thorne
"Treasury of Maori Exploration" - AW Reed
"Nomads of the Wind" - Peter Crawford
"The Last Navigator" - Stephen D Thomas
"Vikings of the Sunrise" - Peter Buck
"Pacific Navigation & Voyaging" - Ben Finney
"The Voyaging Stars" - David Lewis
"We, the Navigators" - David Lewis
"From Maui to Cook" - David Lewis
"They Peopled the Pacific" - A Grove Day
"The Maori Canoe" - Elsdon Best
"The Pa Maori" - Elsdon Best
"Polynesian Voyagers" - Elsdon Best

Most are out of print so the best place to look is probably www.abebooks.com
I would start with David Lewis, Peter Buck or Elsdon Best. Pacific migration is a fascinating subject, as other than lapita pottery (in Melanesia), language groups, and (more lately) DNA there is little to go on. We do know, as @Henry mentioned, that the first Maori canoes with evidence came from what is now the Cook Islands (the earliest known Maori artefact, a 15th century lintel in the Auckland museum is a distinct Rarotonga style) - but it is highly probable that there were separate migrations to NZ as far back as the 13th century, from different parts of the eastern Pacific. No known canoes from the west, where kava is predominant. The first arrivals to NZ have been dated from Moa bones, a massive 3-4m high emu-type bird that was hunted to extinction.
 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
nabanga said:
...The first arrivals to NZ have been dated from Moa bones, a massive 3-4m high emu-type bird that was hunted to extinction.
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Interesting. TIL The Moa was like a gigantic flightless chicken (I assume it tasted like chicken), whose only predator before people arrived was an equally huge eagle (which is also now extinct).

Wikipedia: "In Māori mythology, the pouakai or poukai is a monstrous bird. In some of these legends pouakai kill and eat humans. The myth may refer to the real but now extinct Haast's eagle"

Holy fscking sh&t, NZ used to be a terrifying place.

 
verticity

verticity

I'm interested in things
So for some evolutionary reason animals tend to get gigantic on isolated islands. Madagascar used to have an "elephant bird" This isn't really relevant to New Zealand, but the picture is pretty amusing, because the silhouetted woman in the picture above really lets loose:

From right to left:
- Some kind of bird-like dinosaur
- An Ostrich
- A Madagascar Elephant Bird
- Another kind of dinosaur
- Some other kind of dinosaur
- A hip, modern woman about the city wearing platform shoes
 
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