Did the Maori do kava?

[Deleted User01]

I just watched a moving film called "The Dark Horse". It's a New Zealand Film that features the indigent tribe, the Maori. Like all Indigent Tribes, they suffered when the Blue Eyes sailed into their Island. @Henry, I'm sure you know all about them. What can you tell us about them? Did they do Kava? Why was the word genocide used when describing their situation? The Maori were Polynesians who landed in New Zealand in their canoes .... much like the Hawaiians. The whole Polynesians migration story is really interesting to me but I'm having a hard time getting good information.

On another serious note, the Holidays are close by and the local Food Banks are asking for donations. Of all the charities begging for money, the only 2 reliable charities (in my book) are the Food Bank and the Salvation Army. The rest take a big percentage of the cut and need to be drawn and quartered for that. So send money to your local food bank. You could give them a few cans of food but they can buy 10 times that amount with cash. They have deals with the grocery store chains who are more than happy to oblige. If you don't have cash, then spend a few hours helping them out. I guarantee you that helping your local Food Bank will put a smile on your face that will make Kava envious.
P.S. I already sent them my yearly check and I'm still smiling. Gulp, Gulp, Gulp. Ok, I cheated a little on the smiling thing.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

I think you mean "indigenous." "Indigent" means poor or needy.

 

[Deleted User01]

Thanks @Kavasseur for the correction, they were both indigent and indigenous. And I know you have probably worked with indigenous people and you are well aware of some of the problems. I wonder why those two words are so similar?

 

[Kojo Douglas]

As far as I know, the Maori had a pretty sophisticated state-level society. I would hesitate to label an entire tribe as "indigent."

Doing a cursory etymology of the two words, it appears that they have no relationship.

 

[Deleted User01]

The Maorians in the movie were probably not that indigent, they lived in houses which is pretty good for anyone who is indigent. But I wouldn't say they were doing that great either. And the movie probably exaggerated a few things so that's why I'm calling on @Henry; a citizen of New Zealand, founder of the Kava Society of New Zealand, and fellow member; to give us his perspective.

When I googled the movie, it claimed to be the greatest movie to ever come out of New Zealand but I'm not sure how many movies were made in New Zealand. I don't want to give away the plot but it involved a Maorian Chess Wizard. I had recently seen the one about Bobby Fisher about a month ago. Those chess wizards could use some serious Kava because they seem to suffer a lot from mental illness. Not sure why mental illness and chess are such a good combo but there it is.

 

[Jerome]

The Maorians in the movie were probably not that indigent, they lived in houses which is pretty good for anyone who is indigent. But I wouldn't say they were doing that great either. And the movie probably exaggerated a few things so that's why I'm calling on @Henry; a citizen of New Zealand, founder of the Kava Society of New Zealand, and fellow member; to give us his perspective.

When I googled the movie, it claimed to be the greatest movie to ever come out of New Zealand but I'm not sure how many movies were made in New Zealand. I don't want to give away the plot but it involved a Maorian Chess Wizard. I had recently seen the one about Bobby Fisher about a month ago. Those chess wizards could use some serious Kava because they seem to suffer a lot from mental illness. Not sure why mental illness and chess are such a good combo but there it is.

You ever see them do their haka dance?


Yeah I don't think they had kava!

 

[Deleted User01]

Yeah, that dance is pretty cool and I have never seen it in person. I'm sure it's a big tourist attraction too. But I am really interested in their history. How and why they migrated to New Zealand. Why did they not bring their Kava like the Polynesians who migrated to Hawaii? Or did they bring kava? And finally, what happened to them after the white man landed. In watching the movie, it took a while before I could even determine that they were filming in New Zealand. My first thought was that it was about Aborigines in Australia. There accents were very thick and I read that many of them were not actors.

By the bye @Jerome, I'm not shying away from fat anymore. Had me some chicken fried steak, fried Mushrooms, and french fries yesterday. My tummy says "Thank You". It's funny how your post on "fat is good" was followed by the revelation that the Sugar Industry started the "Fat is Bad" campaign. But moderation in everything is still key. This was our weekly outing to a restaurant and I was thinking about you all the time the grease was running otta those fried mushrooms.

 

[nabanga]

Hi @Deleted User01...the Maori are not one "tribe" but many, who arrived in NZ in separate migrations over hundreds of years. When the first migrations did arrive there was already a group living there, the Maoriori, who soon got polished off. Little is known about them. The different Maori groups were having fierce battles between themselves long before the Europeans turned up. They didn't bring kava though, most of them coming from eastern Polynesia (Cooks, Marquesas etc) where kava culture wasn't so strong in the old days anyway. The earliest Maori material culture found in NZ supports these islands being the origins of the migrations. Any kava that maybe was brought would have died off quickly with the relatively cool NZ climate.
There are many good books on polynesian migration if you're interested - Ben Finney, Peter Buck, David Lewis. All interesting stuff.

 

[Jerome]

Yeah, that dance is pretty cool and I have never seen it in person. I'm sure it's a big tourist attraction too. But I am really interested in their history. How and why they migrated to New Zealand. Why did they not bring their Kava like the Polynesians who migrated to Hawaii? Or did they bring kava? And finally, what happened to them after the white man landed. In watching the movie, it took a while before I could even determine that they were filming in New Zealand. My first thought was that it was about Aborigines in Australia. There accents were very thick and I read that many of them were not actors.

By the bye @Jerome, I'm not shying away from fat anymore. Had me some chicken fried steak, fried Mushrooms, and french fries yesterday. My tummy says "Thank You". It's funny how your post on "fat is good" was followed by the revelation that the Sugar Industry started the "Fat is Bad" campaign. But moderation in everything is still key. This was our weekly outing to a restaurant and I was thinking about you all the time the grease was running otta those fried mushrooms.

Make sure it's good fat. No PUFAS. That means avoiding canola, vegetable, soy, and peanut oil to name a few. Those fats are just as bad as sugar. Highly inflammatory.

We avoid sugar, grains, and industrial seed oils like i mentioned above.

Lard, tallow, butter, ghee, coconut oil, olive oil, avocado oil, and even schmaltz are perfectly fine. So long as they come from quality sources.

 

[Deleted User01]

@nabanga, thanks for the info. It was totally different than I had imagined. So the genocide was caused by in fighting. Also, I didn't realize that NZ had cooler climate. I learned a lot.
@Jerome, I guess I need to read up on PUFAS. It's hard to control what kinds of oils are used by restaurants but I keep that kind of eating to a mininmum. I need to probably get my wife a slab of that Manteca de Puerco and get rid of the Wesson Oil (though we do very little frying at home). But putting butter and bacon back on the diet is huge and we already use Olive Oil for pasta sauce and other things so I think we are on the right track.

 

[verticity]

Yeah, that was my understanding too, @nabanga. @Henry had written something about how there might be a memory of kava in Maori myth, and they might have tried to bring it with them, but the climate in New Zealand is too cold to grow it there. There is a plant known as "false kava" or something that grows in NZ, but is not good to drink...
Here is @Henry 's blog post about this:
http://kavasociety.nz/blog/4587940980/Kava-vs-Kawakawa-and-the-Maori-memories-of-kava/9533776

 

[verticity]

As far as I know, the Maori had a pretty sophisticated state-level society. I would hesitate to label an entire tribe as "indigent."

Doing a cursory etymology of the two words, it appears that they have no relationship.

The words are tangentially related, but not because of their meanings. They both happen to have the Latin prefix indi- meaning "into".
"Indigenous" comes from indi- + gignere (Meaning 'to beget')
"Indigent" comes from indi- + egere (Meaning 'to need')
https://www.google.com/search?q=indigene+etymology
https://www.google.com/search?q=indigent+etymology

 

[Deleted User01]

Geez, you guys are giving me both a Vocabulary and a Lesson in Latin. But I thank ya. I need all the learning that I can get.
@nabanga, I'm having a heck of a time finding books by your authors though there are lots of other books by other authors. I would like to get a books or books that describe both the Polynesians, their way of life, why they migrated, and were they migrated to and so on. The whole ball of wax. Would you have any particular titles you would recommend. @Henry and @verticity, anyone have any suggestions.

 

[violet]

@Deleted User01
Books by Ben Finney
Books by David Lewis
Books by Peter Buck

 

[verticity]

Geez, you guys are giving me both a Vocabulary and a Lesson in Latin. But I thank ya. I need all the learning that I can get.
@nabanga, I'm having a heck of a time finding books by your authors though there are lots of other books by other authors. I would like to get a books or books that describe both the Polynesians, their way of life, why they migrated, and were they migrated to and so on. The whole ball of wax. Would you have any particular titles you would recommend. @Henry and @verticity, anyone have any suggestions.

Kava Forums: Come for the kava information. Stay for the Latin lessons.

 

[verticity]

@Deleted User01
Books by Ben Finney
Books by David Lewis
Books by Peter Buck

Not the Peter Buck who was guitarist for R.E.M., I assume.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

The existence of any pre-Maori populations in NZ is EXTREMELY controversial (both politically and academically) in NZ. The "consensus" or perhaps the "mainstream" opinion is that nobody lived in NZ prior to Maori migration from (most likely) Rarotonga. The Maori settlers first explored NZ and then some of them (a few centuries ago) moved to the Chatham islands and became knowns as the Moriori. A very strange society that completely rejected violence, even in self-defense. This decision led to their demise when certain Maori tribes hijacked a British ship and sailed to the Chathams to kill, rape and enslave the Moriori. Still, it's a big philosophical question. Apparently the Moriori really did believe that life based around violence was not worth living at all and as everyone dies anyway, what matters is not survival per se, but living in accordance with one's moral principles. Anyway, the other Maori tribes clearly didn't agree with them. So this is the mainstream idea about the Moriori.

A less mainstream opinion is that the Moriori were not just a Maori tribe, but in fact they were the original inhabitants of New Zealand who had been exterminated by later waves of Polynesian migrants. Most historians think there is no evidence to support this theory, but some people believe it's true. It is a political debate though. According to the official discourse, the Maori settlers were the very first people to touch New Zealand and the only people who could make a claim to gaining "ownership" of the entire natural environment of the country without killing or displacing anyone. This (in theory) gives them a morally high "claim" to New Zealand's natural resources . Higher or stronger than that of the European settlers who might have acquired their land through conquest or trickery. However, if it is true that the Maori themselves killed some other people in order to own their land/resources, then the subsequent European actions may appear (at least to some) to be at least as "legitimate" as those of the Maori. This is why it is such a hugely controversial topic (at least in some circles). But the mainstream view is that when the Maori settlers from Rarotonga arrived to New Zealand it was empty.

We also have more "exotic" theories about the pre-Maori history: http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10795590

 

[Kojo Douglas]

That's very interesting, Henry! I'm fascinated by these kinds of topics. In terms of the indigenous vrs. colonial argument, many countries have similar conflicts in their discourses. Obviously, the United States and its native peoples come to mind. But other countries, like my wife's home country of Ghana, also have discourses that are shaped and disrupted by stories of movement, war, and migration. I don't know much about New Zealand, and that story about the Moriori tribe is tantalizing. I think I'll have to look deeper into it.

 

[Deleted User01]

@Henry, good post. I can see where it gets political when there are "natural resources" at stake. And that game is as old as the ages. Now to check out the books that @nabanga and @violet sent me.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

There's a pretty good documentary on the prehistoric settling of Australia 40,000-60,000 years ago. It's called "The First Footprints" and streams on Amazon for free. As an anthropologist, I can vouch that they do a damn good job telling the story.