Toss and Wash Vs. Traditional Prep Method?

[WakaGrade]

Alright so IMO toss and wash is much more cost effective and more potent, but is the traditional better for you? Is there any one that gets more out of the traditional? I know that kava history tells us traditional is the way to go, but what is your take? What do you prefer? GO!!

 

[infraredz]

Toss and Wash makes me nauseous, gave me skin problems and lower GI issues...

It was more effective, from an efficiency point of view but not worth it for me. I don't think anyone will contest that the traditional method is less potent, but like you said above, they've been doing it that way for so long for a reason...

Me, I'm lazy so I use a blender or rolling pin for a few minutes.

 

[infraredz]

Also, based on @Andrew Procyk 's claims regarding tudei, there appears to be hepatotoxic (and I would venture to say nephrotoxic) compounds in the plant. It's been established the above-ground part of the plant contains Flavokawain B, which is hepatotoxic.

Now, with toss and wash, instead of creating an aqueous solution like traditional preparation methods, you are using your digestive system to do that. As we know from time-release drugs, the pH of various environments can have a drastic impact on the all sorts of physiological processes. What I would worry about is the fact that so much material (relatively) is exposed to an acidic environment (as in the stomach). This can significantly alter what is broken down and what can be later absorbed.

What I'm saying is that the drastically different environment (pH 2-5 of stomach vs. neutral pH- water 7) can have a big impact on what sort of action the proteases and HCl have. Who knows if there is a compound that, in the presence of an acidic environment, is metabolized into something toxic? I can't find any studies on it, but like I said above, that is the primary way time-release drugs work is by being pH dependent. Also worth noting that the acidic pH of the stomach helps kill bacterial and other possible pathogens, but can the stomach deal with 4 tbsps of raw root? We are told that it's FDA cleared as Andrew will attest to, but I still worry.

 

[KavaGurl]

Hhmm..Yes..this is definitely something I need to research more and carefully scrutinize, considering the fact that I looove toss n washing Nambawan I do find the effect is much more potent and lasts much longer...plus..I don't have to drink as much. However, if it's damaging to my body in any way...I'd rather stick to traditional!

 

[infraredz]

I'm by no means saying that toss and wash is dangerous, just want to make that clear.

All I was doing was pointing out hypotheticals as to how it could be different compared to kava prepared the traditional way. I mean, I don't know if any of us expected hear what we did from Lebot regarding tudeis and that's just a slightly different type of kava (still root, still prepared aqueously, etc). I guess that changed the way I look at things like this now.

 

[Ed!]

I used to toss-n-wash as my regular method. For me it became more difficult to get down as time went on, though that could have had something to do with the grind I was using. It was around the same time that one of our old members had a severe allergic reaction after her first ever toss-n-wash session (she was a long time kava drinker too), and she never was able to drink kava again. Those two things pretty much ended my toss-n-washing.

I do agree that the potency was quite good doing a toss-n-wash method, though I now use my kava at least twice, so I feel like I'm getting as much as possible out of it still.

Ultimately I don't think the allergic reactions were because of tossing and washing, I think it was the potency. I think everyone that had a severe reaction had just upped their intake in a significant way, not allowing the body to acclimate. I still won't toss-n-wash but for rare occasions, and I feel some guilt when I do, like I'm just being lazy and not respecting the process. No judgement meant to those that do, I've just evolved away from the method.

 

[Dan]

Toss and wash only when I haven't prepared and need to get some kava down fast, which is rarely. I mostly avoid it due to the immediate sense of dehydration (tingly lips and dry mucous membranes) and later skin problems it gives me. Also, like others have implied, it's even grosser than strained kava.

Definitely agree on its potency, however.

 

[KavaGurl]

Yeah just to be clear..I only toss in between regular sessions. Traditional is still my mainstay. And that is just awful about her reaction..wouldn't wish that on anyone!

 

[Piper Methysticum]

I still allow some small root particles in the Kava but my days of pure toss and washing are loooooong gone.

 

[The Kap'n]

I still allow some small root particles in the Kava but my days of pure toss and washing are loooooong gone.

Same here. It beat me up a while ago. A glass of watered down sawdust only goes down a certain number of times until enough is enough.

 

[KavaGurl]

I dunno..call me crazy..but I have this weird thing where I get some root in my mouth and will chew on it for awhile I love to do that..don't know why. lol and for obvious reasons it intensifies the whole experience. Maybe I should move to the islands!

 

[pitshack]

Wow KavaGurl, chewing on the root is pretty hardcore. I know I read on here somewhere That some islands actually chew on pieces of fresh root though. Me personally, its about 50-50 between toss and wash and traditional prep.

 

[Piper Methysticum]

There's a French Vanuatu Kava doco floating around on YT, on it the guy preparing the Kava makes sure even the smallest rootlet is removed and actually fishes out a practically microscopic piece.

 

[Andrew Procyk]

Did not see this thread for a while, but then caught that my name mentioned was mentioned. So, The toxic compound in the above-ground parts of the root is Piper Methysticine (PM), not FKB. FKB is in tudei, Isa, wichamnii/wild kavas, and is found in the root stock as well.

As per toss-and-wash - what I have found is that since root tissue does not digest, you get a gassy bloat. Additionally, it seems (or so, I theorize) the fines (particulates) function to break the surface tension of the gas bubbles in your GI tract, making the gas/bloat near impossible to pass. IT gives me a serious stomach upset. Now - to be crass - if I take a simethicone, I'll fart the bad feeling right out, but who wants to have a nice mellow feeling, or be around someone with a nice mellow feeling, and listen to that?

So, I am not a toss-and-washer.

Cheers!

 

[Buddhacide]

I used to toss and wash all the time, but the effect on dermopathy is unarguable. The more I do it, the scalier I get. That said, if I don't do kava for a while - I'm on a hiatus at the moment - I'll toss and wash on the odd occasion. I also find that tossing and washing sometimes give's me too strong an effect. Kava I find to best taken with some degree of moderation.

 

[Ed!]

@Buddhacide, if you think it's not really worth it, then I think it's probably not worth it for anyone. When I quit you were the one person who never seemed bothered by any of the side-effects.

... and Andrew is on point about the bloat. I never found it really painful, but the day after a toss-n-wash session was always uncomfortably airy. I couldn't understand how my body could even physically produce so much gas.

 

[Buddhacide]

Ed, lol. That's true I was very much a proponent of it. I still am - only not all the time.

Mostly though. I'm a bit of a contrarian and like to argue against popular opinion. To me, before I started getting dermopathy, it was way more effective and sensible to toss and wash. So by golly that's what I was going to do. I learned my lesson when, on a trip to El Salvador, my feet were cracking so bad I had to wear a tensor bandage half the time I was there. I never learn lessons the easy way, lol