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So, what about the whole severe liver damage thing??

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Nola111

Kava Curious
I'm still relatively new to Kava and pretty much every medical website warns against its use due to the potential for irreversible liver damage. The countries that have already banned it obviously say to stay away. And those that haven't banned it (such as the US where I live) still pretty much advise against using it, at least on all the sites I've looked at so far.

I'm sure this discussion has taken place around here somewhere on this forum, but I'd like to know just how risky this stuff really is. The liver is nothing to mess with. I'm in my 40's and just had a full physical which showed pristine liver function - A+. Should I be ok? The warnings are scary. And I do drink alcohol during the week at night (never while taking Kava) and take medications which can have an effect on the liver (SNRI's and very small maintenance dose of a benzo which I'd like to replace with Kava) however I've been on those for 10 years, get my liver tested every year, and all good. The Kava I'm taking is the good stuff from Gourmet Hawaiian.

What are people's unbiased thoughts on this? I know this is a Kava forum so it may be tough to get the straight dope, but so far everyone around here has been great. I'm looking to ease my concerns, but not at the expense of the truth either.
 
Ligermeat

Ligermeat

Warm and Fuzzeh!
For thousands of years, people have consumed kava with absolutely no record of liver damage, and defiantly no deaths have ever been reported. The world health organization (who originally stated the liver damage claims) have said themselves that the liver damage claims may be based on using the whole plant rather than just the root. If you stick to consuming just noble root water extraction from noble plants, not tinctures or pills, you'll be just fine.
 
Bula Kava House

Bula Kava House

Portland, OR
Kava Vendor
Kava Bar Owner
Nola111 said:
I'm still relatively new to Kava and pretty much every medical website warns against its use due to the potential for irreversible liver damage. The countries that have already banned it obviously say to stay away. And those that haven't banned it (such as the US where I live) still pretty much advise against using it, at least on all the sites I've looked at so far.

I'm sure this discussion has taken place around here somewhere on this forum, but I'd like to know just how risky this stuff really is. The liver is nothing to mess with. I'm in my 40's and just had a full physical which showed pristine liver function - A+. Should I be ok? The warnings are scary. And I do drink alcohol during the week at night (never while taking Kava) and take medications which can have an effect on the liver (SNRI's and very small maintenance dose of a benzo which I'd like to replace with Kava) however I've been on those for 10 years, get my liver tested every year, and all good. The Kava I'm taking is the good stuff from Gourmet Hawaiian.

What are people's unbiased thoughts on this? I know this is a Kava forum so it may be tough to get the straight dope, but so far everyone around here has been great. I'm looking to ease my concerns, but not at the expense of the truth either.
Click to expand...
Most of the sites you are seeing contain old information, most of which is regurgitated from the same ill informed studies. And the cases of liver damage reported MANY years ago are typically attributed to unscrupulous manufacturers making alcohol based extracts using parts of the kava plant that aren't supposed to be used due to toxicity. Any new research by people who actually study kava specifically prove that it is safe when used in a traditional way, meaning an aqueous extract of roots only. People in the south pacific have been drinking traditionally prepared kava for over 3,000 years with no higher rates of liver illness or failure. Many of the members of these forums have been drinking kava daily for years and have shared their healthy liver panel results as well. I personally own a kava bar and online store in which we sell literally tons of kava yearly and we too have customers show us their healthy liver panels results. The research and anecdotal evidence of kava's safety is so immense that almost all the countries that at one time banned kava have reversed those bans in recent years.

Problem with the internet and search engines is that once a topic gains views, traction, and links over the course of years, it's hard to get it off those first couple pages of search results. Unfortunately, that's what you encountered when doing your research.

Kava is safe. Period.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Alia

Alia

'Awa Grower/Collector
I'll add this- both replies are right on the mark and if you wish to delve further you can search two of the best resources for background on this liver issue- Dr. Mathias Schmidt (Germany) and J.D. Baker (University of Hawai'i, Mano'a) both were Presenters at "KavaCon2015" in Honolulu along with Vincent Lebot. This Kava Conference still has a facebook page where you can get more details but likely if you just search Dr. Schmidt/kava you will see some background and why the liver controversy should just go away. My anecdotal evidence is that for 30 years I have consumed fresh and/or dry root kava ('awa) beverage (water based) every evening. I have yearly liver tests and my liver is totally fine.
 
currentbun

currentbun

Kavacidal Maniac
I'm a recent noob, too, and found the "New To Kava" tab contained lots of good info that answered most of my questions. There's even an article about Kava Safety that has links (if I recall correctly) to the facts.

Welcome!
 
S

Senoz

Kava Curious
DEar @Bula Kava House and @Alia , thanks, this is good reassuring info on kava safety. I have one follow-up question about kava safety that I could not find all-too-much information about: what if you are taking prescription medication, more specifically SSRI-type antidepressants ( Venlafaxine/Effexor )? Many people in this forum, from what I can tell, have had psychological issues and I assume that there will be a relevant part of the users taking prescription medication, or trying to withdraw from it. All the quality sources of information about kava safety that I'Ve found advise that if you take presccription medication, kava may not be safe... and to ask your physician. However, my physician has no idea about kava. Nor has my pharmacist. I'm struggling to find good information about my specific concern regarding kava-venlafaxine interaction. Any ideas/suggestions?

Thanks in advance!
Kind regards,
S.
 
Alia

Alia

'Awa Grower/Collector
If you can get a copy of- Lebot's book-- Kava, the Pacific Drug, aka- Pacific Elixir there is lots of good research on kavalactones and their reaction and comparisons in the Chemistry chapter. Page 69 discusses a specific kavalactone (DHM) that "has the greatest potentiating effect on barbituric narcosis".
I do not take any prescription medications nor do I drink alcohol so it is not an issue with me personally.
 
E

EQ

Atman
Senoz said:
I wonder how comes that @Bula Kava House and other vendors that are regarded as "trusted" are not certified by TrueKava (@Deleted User )?
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Now some of my reply is assumption, and if I'm completely wrong somebody correct me.

I believe first off that to have the trusted title you have to sell only Noble products. You also have to send in samples with every new Kava delivery and this takes a long time.

I see Bula Kava House kavas sold out often. I mean this in a positive way because they are a Kava bar, and a acclaimed online vendor, and are moving lots of root.

They may not have the time to get everything tested to stress over it.

I also believe BKH sells non-noble products. If you want a noble product just read the description on the right on the website and if it says noble it probably is.

BKH is a highly praised vendor due to having excellent customer service, excellent Kava, an online presence.
 
kasa_balavu

kasa_balavu

Yaqona Dina
True Kava certifies vendors, not products, so they'd have to ensure their entire product line was tudei-free before they could be certified.
The proprietor of BKH doesn't believe that Tudei kava should be discouraged, so perhaps he hasn't even pursued TrueKava certification.

It costs a lot of money and effort to get pure noble kava from Vanuatu. The biggest kava exporter there for example, says it's too much of a hassle to ensure 100% noble kava.

So long as they can make money from selling tudei kava, they see no benefit to them of going noble.

They aren't intentionally causing harm of course. They drink tudei kava, are still alive, and hence believe their experiences trump what the scientists say.
 
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Kojo Douglas

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
There is no evidence whatsoever that drinking Kava - Noble or Tudei - causes any kind of liver damage, let alone severe liver damage. There have been correlations made, but the studies have not controlled for important variables like simultaneous alcohol abuse.
 
Kojo Douglas

Kojo Douglas

The Kavasseur
All I am saying is that there is no conclusive evidence that Kava causes liver damage. Certainly compared to alcohol, Kava is a very safe drink for relaxation and recreation. Most Kava being sold on the market is Noble, and you will certainly be safe buying Noble Kava. If you want to err on the side of caution, certainly stay away from Tudei or cheap extracts.
 
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