liver test

[Alia]

Could be..BUT it is commonly known (apparently) in kava drinking countries (such as New Zealand) that many kava users have higher GGT levels. Some of my older kava drinking friends say their doctors are all aware of this. Even my GP knew about it

My concern is just that specific study you refer to, which was done here in Hawaii. I admit to being unaware of any broad based study published which provides good background data on the overall health of the individuals tested, and one that offers a greater population base to demonstrate elevated GGT in folks who drink kava regularly and do not have a history of liver problems. That Hawaii study does not have this foundation. I know I volunteered for that particular study and there was not funding to come to Hawaii Island (from O'ahu where tests were taken). As a nightly drinker of fresh, 'awa/kava aqueous beverage, for decades- my yearly liver and kidney tests are considered excellent by my Doctor. Granted, I take the standard US test which I assume does in include GGT, it is SGPT.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

As a nightly drinker of fresh, 'awa/kava aqueous beverage, for decades- my yearly liver and kidney tests are considered excellent by my Doctor. Granted, I take the standard US test which I assume does in include GGT, it is SGPT.

You mean does not include?

The Hawaiian study is just one of such studies. The examination of kava's health effects on the Aboriginal population reached a similar conclusion. Apparently (perhaps @kasa_balavu can clarify this), many Fijian doctors are also aware of the link between *slightly* higer GGT levels and kava consumption and do not seem to consider it as an indicator of any health problems (especially as it appears to be reversible). From what I understand, GGT levels can increase in response to lots of factors and do not in themselves indicate liver injury. E.g. a person who never drinks alcohol will likely have high GGT levels if he or she drinks some alcohol within 24h before the test. The test will show higher GGT in response to alcohol intake, but it will obviously not mean that this person's liver is in some serious trouble. I suppose this is the main reason why most liver tests in the USA do not include GGT. But note that I am not a medical professional, so I am not sure if my take on this is accurate.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

By all other measures (including the other results of my liver test) I am perfectly healthy despite regularly consuming relatively large amounts of kava (at least by pharmacological standards). I am confident that noble kava is not a dose dependent toxin andit is perfectly safe for nearly everyone.
But I just noticed that pretty much all liver tests published here do not include GGT. Without ggt elevation, my liver test results look excellent

 

[TheKavaSociety]

This is NZ government's assessment: "Reversible changes in liver function parameters [they refer to GGT] have been reported with the traditional kava beverage, however, these are not indicative of acute liver inflammation"

 

[kavadude]

Hmm I'm actually off for a panel soon, but it looks like GGT costs practically as much as the "comprehensive metabolic panel" (which includes some 14 different markers, including AST/ALT).

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Hmm I'm actually off for a panel soon, but it looks like GGT costs practically as much as the "comprehensive metabolic panel" (which includes some 14 different markers, including AST/ALT).

Weird. Do they offer separate GGT tests then? Just odd. Or maybe NZ is odd (I wouldnt be surprised)

 

[kavadude]

Weird. Do they offer separate GGT tests then? Just odd. Or maybe NZ is odd (I wouldnt be surprised)

Hmm, seems like it's available separately and as part of more comprehensive tests, but not as part of the particular one I mentioned. I did get it in '14 and mine was right in the middle of the reference range. I do think I skipped the kava a few days before that one, but it's been so long I barely remember.

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Hmm, seems like it's available separately and as part of more comprehensive tests, but not as part of the particular one I mentioned. I did get it in '14 and mine was right in the middle of the reference range. I do think I skipped the kava a few days before that one, but it's been so long I barely remember.

I see. Well, maybe the results would have beeb different if I hadnt had that session 12h before the test i've also read that some men have naturally higher ggt (up to 120)

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

 

[verticity]

Weird. Do they offer separate GGT tests then? Just odd. Or maybe NZ is odd (I wouldnt be surprised)

Do you think???

 

[Alia]

You mean does not include?

The Hawaiian study is just one of such studies. The examination of kava's health effects on the Aboriginal population reached a similar conclusion. Apparently (perhaps @kasa_balavu can clarify this), many Fijian doctors are also aware of the link between *slightly* higer GGT levels and kava consumption and do not seem to consider it as an indicator of any health problems (especially as it appears to be reversible). From what I understand, GGT levels can increase in response to lots of factors and do not in themselves indicate liver injury. E.g. a person who never drinks alcohol will likely have high GGT levels if he or she drinks some alcohol within 24h before the test. The test will show higher GGT in response to alcohol intake, but it will obviously not mean that this person's liver is in some serious trouble. I suppose this is the main reason why most liver tests in the USA do not include GGT. But note that I am not a medical professional, so I am not sure if my take on this is accurate.

Yes, my apology, I meant- does not

 

[Alia]

Hmm I'm actually off for a panel soon, but it looks like GGT costs practically as much as the "comprehensive metabolic panel" (which includes some 14 different markers, including AST/ALT).

Yes, my yearly test includes AST (SGOT) and ALT (SGPT)

 

[Alia]

This is NZ government's assessment: "Reversible changes in liver function parameters [they refer to GGT] have been reported with the traditional kava beverage, however, these are not indicative of acute liver inflammation"

I wonder what is the source of the NZ's govt. assessment? is it their own records? or are they referring to the Hawaii study? I am not disagreeing at all with the idea the kava may produce these "reversible changes" I am only saying if too much is accepted from the Hawaii study (and I am convinced that particular study is flawed due to reasons I gave earlier) then we just perpetuate the myth of that study's conclusions. I guess it doesn't matter anyway since the GGT levels do not appear to be life threatening. More important- thank you very much for your information and it is classic how kava drinkers seem to communicate infinitely better than anyone else. Or am I just biased?

 

[kavayo]

When I got my liver tests back my hpns was super high and my doctor asked, told him I drank a lot of kava and he said "that makes perfect sense"

 

[TheKavaSociety]

I wonder what is the source of the NZ's govt. assessment? is it their own records? or are they referring to the Hawaii study? I am not disagreeing at all with the idea the kava may produce these "reversible changes" I am only saying if too much is accepted from the Hawaii study (and I am convinced that particular study is flawed due to reasons I gave earlier) then we just perpetuate the myth of that study's conclusions. I guess it doesn't matter anyway since the GGT levels do not appear to be life threatening. More important- thank you very much for your information and it is classic how kava drinkers seem to communicate infinitely better than anyone else. Or am I just biased?

I think they were not even aware of that Hawaiian study. Instead they relied on numerous studies conducted in Australia.
Eg.: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1081/CLT-120025347

I don't know how reliable these studies are. But I just know that when I ask older kava users in NZ if they see any abnormalities in their regular liver/health check results, they often note higher GGT. I myself have had two liver tests in the last couple of years and both showed a slight elevation of GGT (and both tests were admittedly done within 12-24h of kava consumption - next time I will abstain from kava for a while to see if there's any difference).

Anyway, thanks a lot for your comments. I agree that kava drinkers seem to communicate quite well

 

[ThePiper]

When I got my liver tests back my hpns was super high and my doctor asked, told him I drank a lot of kava and he said "that makes perfect sense"

What is hpns

 

[kavayo]

What is hpns

Happiness levels

 

[verticity]

What is hpns

Hairy PeNiS
Actually I don't know, Google is not helpful.

 

[verticity]

But seriously, HSPs are a thing -- "Heat Shock Proteins." HSPs appears to be a marker for alcoholic liver damage. Maybe that's what was intended.

 

[ThePiper]

Well the guy (kavayo)who made the claim said he meant happiness so I'm hoping that was just a really crazy coincidence.