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Kava Bar in NYC

kingkava

Newbie
Hey guys, I'm in the process of opening the very first kava bar in NYC. So far I've got a lot of people involved - from interior decorators to kava cocktail mixologists. I've also got a few potential investors. I'm looking for a business partner, as well as people who would be interested in working there. It's going to be very different than any other kava bar, and I think if all goes as planned it's going to make kava more popular than ever before. Let me know as soon as possible if you're interested!
 

sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
Interesting. I've got mixed feelings about it...but I wish you the best of luck. Just make sure to have plain potent traditional kava shells available in case any of us ever happen to be in New York. ;)

soon to be: "New York, the city that always Sleeps"
 

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
Whatever you do (and honestly I'm flattered our site has gained the reputation of being a kava hub enough for you to post your ambition here. That is very awesome and really means a lot) be sure to center on the history and educate your patrons as much as possible. I believe working together to solidify the future of kava will require massive amounts of education for the general public. So far what kava vendors we have on the market are following this model... well, at least all of the SUCCESSFUL businesses are adhering to this ideology.

As I extend to every kava vendor who sells product online, if we can be of assistance please feel free to ask. Heck, we'd even sample your product for you.

Also I'm assuming by kava cocktails you're referring to mixing kava with some type of flavor to make it more palatable, as mixing kava with alcohol is highly inadvisable and may actually be physically dangerous. Of course you also run into the whole legal issue of someone mixing the two, doing something careless, destructive, or overall stupid and all of a sudden kava becomes this demon root when said stupid person lays the blame on kava because it's new and not as well known as alcohol.

Lastly good luck, and it never hurts to throw us a link, or a mention to your customers who are interested in joining the online kava lovers community.
 

Akava

Kava Enthusiast
In terms of the effect on the kava community, this could be disastrous or revolutionary. Do us a favour and make sure the PR is perfect and no false rumours or incorrect information becomes widely spread due to your venture.

Make Us Proud And Good Luck!
I will surely visit one day!
 

infraredz

BULA!
I definitely echo Kapm's sentiments regarding "cocktails" and the mixture of alcohol with kava. Make no mistake, it is dangerous due to the high level of synergistic effects and (more chronically/subtly) from a potential hepatotoxic perspective. I'd recommend that you tell people that having both is not recommended. You could also put that on a sign (see below re: "caution sign").

Also, (and this is just to further extrapolate on what Kapm was getting at) I would recommend that you stick to selling purely kava and pure kava. Of course this doesn't mean that you can't sell fruit drinks, food, other beverages/tea, etc but the more associations that a "kava bar" has with other substances, the more disastrous the media attention will be. For example, there have been reports of kava bars selling K@ either alongside or in kava beverages and this has garnered lawsuits, but more importantly, massively negative media attention for both kava and K@ (which neither substance needs, especially K@ right now).

In fact, so many kava bars sell K@ there have even been people that have came here confused about the fact that they aren't the same thing! Both of the substances can fall into the somewhat "murky" underbelly of "legal highs" in the minds of the sensationalistic media, parents, "action groups", etc. Therefore, the larger the distance between the two the better it will be for each substance, and possibly even your business, depending on your business model. The problem lies in the fact that whenever something relatively new is being introduced to a very wide-market (as I'm sure yours will be), if there is even a hint of anything negative about the operation (such as marketing, atmosphere, titles on the menu, other substances served, etc) the media will latch onto the negatives and there will be a ton of unnecessary media attention for kava which is already in a delicate place it seems.

For example, marketing it as something that is "A centuries-old Polynesian tea made from the roots of Piper Methysticum" is very different than "Want to feel good? Drink some kava" (or other such emphasis on kava's psychoactive nature). An emphasis on the history and tradition would do wonders in this regard. Also, in regards to the menu, don't call it something like the "Head Mod" as one vendor does (and I'm sure there are other such titles). Calling it by the cultivar's name would be very beneficial in terms of marketing it in line with the history and tradition, but of course you could also put up the various juices you could mix with it (as a lot of kava bars seem to do).

I would also recommend that there be a little "introduction" to people that are new. When greeting someone walking in through the door, ask them if they have had kava before and if not, (if it were me) I would say something along the lines of
"Well, it's a beverage made from water and a ground root from a plant that has been used traditionally for centuries all throughout the Pacific. The natives of these Pacific island countries have safely used it for centuries for its calming effect. If it's your first time, we would recommend that since the kava has an unpleasant taste, you try it with one of our mixes [point to menu]. Also, kava has a reverse tolerance which means that in the beginning, you actually might have to drink more to feel any effect (as I see a lot of negative reviews on kava bars where they might not have mentioned this and people say "Tastes like muddy water and didn't do anything even after two shells. Waste.)."

Also, if it were me, I would think of a way to address the potential for interactions with medications (as it can have). I don't know of a delicate way to put that, although the kava bar I frequent has a sign saying something along the lines of "If you are taking medication, especially anti-anxiety medication, muscle relaxants or pain medication, consult your physician before drinking kava".

Another potential for serious trouble is someone drinking a lot of kava and then driving (even though a study found that "A medicinal dose of kava containing 180 mg of kavalactones does not impair driving ability, whereas 30 mg of oxazepam shows some impairment"). I know of a few cases in south Florida (which is super-saturated with kava bars) has had a few cases of people being pulled over after drinking kava for DUIs. It seems like most have gotten off, but that could be due to a "loose" law in Florida that allows "impaired driving" as long as it isn't alcohol or an illegal substance. That being said, if someone gets pulls over in NYC and tells the cop they hadn't had anything other than kava at that kava bar, well... it could be disastrous. All that being said, I know most people in NYC don't even have cars and take taxis and PT (from what I've heard) but the potential is still there. Again, it's a line of delicacy because you don't want people to drink 12 shells and then think it's safe, but you also want people to know that in moderation, it actually is completely safe. Having a limit on amounts would be beneficial in this regard.

Also, and I'm sure Judd and others can chime in on this, but because the FDA hasn't approved kava as a "drug", I would try to avoid saying that it "does well for anxiety, depression, stress..." and rather say something like "The natives have traditionally used it (or it's been known to) to ease stress, promote relaxation, give a sense of well-being without impairment like with alcohol". Marketing it to treat or cure ailments would be illegal if I'm not mistaken.



These are all just some thoughts off the top of my head. It's your business though so feel free to run it however you'd like, I just felt like it might be good to suggest some things that I think we all agree are in the best interest of kava. Feel free to message me if you want to talk or have any questions. :)
 

HeadHodge

Bula To Eternity
Me and wife have started and operated lot's of business's over the years (mostly tech related), and one thing we figured out over the years is there's not a whole lot of original thought out there (including ours). We've found that no matter how great our business sounded, that always someone somewhere has already thought of it.

We're out to pasture now, but if we were going to run another business we would concentrate a lot of effort to understand how everyone else is already doing it (successfully or otherwise). And then try to do it better than everyone else.

I think maybe if I asked a CaveMan he might reply with something like "Don't Reinvent the Wheel" :)

Here's a link to the kava bar here in downtown San Diego:

http://www.yelp.com/biz/kava-lounge-san-diego

BTW They do sell both Kava and Liquor there. But they definitely don't recommend mixing. I'm guessing they do that because no matter what, some people are just going to be turned off to Kava because of the taste.

l.jpg
 
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infraredz

BULA!
Whoa, I had no idea you lived in SD @HeadHodge ! I live in LA but grew down there and visit SD regularly.

I have seen that listed under a google search of kava bar but it I don't feel like giving my money to that sort of establishment. I highly recommend that you check out Mystic Water kava bar in Northpark area. Heck, we should maybe setup a time when we could meet up and have some kava together! :)
 

HeadHodge

Bula To Eternity
Whoa, I had no idea you lived in SD @HeadHodge ! I live in LA but grew down there and visit SD regularly.

I have seen that listed under a google search of kava bar but it I don't feel like giving my money to that sort of establishment. I highly recommend that you check out Mystic Water kava bar in Northpark area. Heck, we should maybe setup a time when we could meet up and have some kava together! :)
We travel quite a bit (because we have the time to). But if it works out sometime, that would be awesome!!
 

kingkava

Newbie
Interesting. I've got mixed feelings about it...but I wish you the best of luck. Just make sure to have plain potent traditional kava shells available in case any of us ever happen to be in New York. ;)

soon to be: "New York, the city that always Sleeps"
We will absolutely have plain potent tradition kava - though it will most likely be served in a glass cone/bowl instead of a coconut shell. I'm hoping that this will be our most popular beverage! Just curious, why do you have mixed feelings about a kava bar in NYC? I think that we might have to put up a sign that says "New York, the city that always sleeps." :)
 

kingkava

Newbie
Whatever you do (and honestly I'm flattered our site has gained the reputation of being a kava hub enough for you to post your ambition here. That is very awesome and really means a lot) be sure to center on the history and educate your patrons as much as possible. I believe working together to solidify the future of kava will require massive amounts of education for the general public. So far what kava vendors we have on the market are following this model... well, at least all of the SUCCESSFUL businesses are adhering to this ideology.

As I extend to every kava vendor who sells product online, if we can be of assistance please feel free to ask. Heck, we'd even sample your product for you.

Also I'm assuming by kava cocktails you're referring to mixing kava with some type of flavor to make it more palatable, as mixing kava with alcohol is highly inadvisable and may actually be physically dangerous. Of course you also run into the whole legal issue of someone mixing the two, doing something careless, destructive, or overall stupid and all of a sudden kava becomes this demon root when said stupid person lays the blame on kava because it's new and not as well known as alcohol.

Lastly good luck, and it never hurts to throw us a link, or a mention to your customers who are interested in joining the online kava lovers community.
I completely agree that educating the public about the history of kava is very important. We have thought of several ways to do this - one of my favorite ideas is having a wine menu-esque book that will provide a complete history of each strain that we sell. In addition to the histories, we will describe the effects of each strain as well as the flavor. Like choosing a wine from a menu, this will help customers choose what specific strain that are looking for. Thanks so much for the support! There's a very good chance that I will need your assistance in the future. And don't worry, we will not be selling any alcohol. All of the cocktails will be made with natural, healthy ingredients. I'll be sure to mention kavaforums.com to anyone interested in joining an online kava lovers community!
 

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
Now that sounds like an establishment I'd frequent regularly! Best of luck to you.
 

infraredz

BULA!
That wine menu sounds f-ing amazing. I've said I'm a kavasseur (evenm though there is only one true kavasseur...) but I would love for someone to offer me a leather-bound book with every (safe) strain known to man and then prepare each for me and allow me to sip them and comment on them.

Vekta (I think) came up with a very nice tasting review one time. :p
 

sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
We will absolutely have plain potent tradition kava - though it will most likely be served in a glass cone/bowl instead of a coconut shell. I'm hoping that this will be our most popular beverage! Just curious, why do you have mixed feelings about a kava bar in NYC? I think that we might have to put up a sign that says "New York, the city that always sleeps." :)
Basically for the same reasons outlined by Infraredz...us long time root-heads fear that rising popularity of kava could lead to things that put it under scrutiny by the law. We don't want kava to get scheduled. Dropping kava into a more alcohol/bar scene could quickly draw negative attention because regular dudes are not likely to take the consequences of mixing the two seriously. Health issues and DUIs popping up where people are having to cough up the word Kava...and tarnish it's name...media-hack jobs doing pieces on 'The new legal drug that's killing your kids..." etc... There will always be somes idiots out there who will wanna see how smashed than can get on both at the same time...and end up ruining it for everyone.
On the other hand, we also like the prospect of it's popularity growing because we would love to see more people be into kava than many other things. And having more Nakamals pop up around the country/world would be nice for the sake of actually having one nearby to go to, meet like-minded people, try new kavas...etc...
It really sounds like a cool idea. We just worry about what could happen. Most of us here have put in a lot of time learning and loving the traditional history and usage of kava. For the most part, we respect it in that way. We like the quiet peaceful nakamal. We like not drawing much attention and keeping the eyes of the law averted. I've always meant to visit New York and look forward to stopping in, if you get this place going. Arriving to "..the city that always sleeps" sign in the window, would put a smile on my face. :D
 

kingkava

Newbie
Basically for the same reasons outlined by Infraredz...us long time root-heads fear that rising popularity of kava could lead to things that put it under scrutiny by the law. We don't want kava to get scheduled. Dropping kava into a more alcohol/bar scene could quickly draw negative attention because regular dudes are not likely to take the consequences of mixing the two seriously. Health issues and DUIs popping up where people are having to cough up the word Kava...and tarnish it's name...media-hack jobs doing pieces on 'The new legal drug that's killing your kids..." etc... There will always be somes idiots out there who will wanna see how smashed than can get on both at the same time...and end up ruining it for everyone.
On the other hand, we also like the prospect of it's popularity growing because we would love to see more people be into kava than many other things. And having more Nakamals pop up around the country/world would be nice for the sake of actually having one nearby to go to, meet like-minded people, try new kavas...etc...
It really sounds like a cool idea. We just worry about what could happen. Most of us here have put in a lot of time learning and loving the traditional history and usage of kava. For the most part, we respect it in that way. We like the quiet peaceful nakamal. We like not drawing much attention and keeping the eyes of the law averted. I've always meant to visit New York and look forward to stopping in, if you get this place going. Arriving to "..the city that always sleeps" sign in the window, would put a smile on my face. :D
You raise some very good points. Calling it a kava "bar" may be a bit misleading. We'll be more like a coffee shop than a bar. Our goal is to have a healthy image. Almost everything that we sell will be organic and relatively healthy. This includes our kava, coffee, tea, smoothies, and food (which will most likely be vegan). Our lawyers and publicists will be working hard to ensure that kava's reputation will not be tarnished. There will be age restrictions as well as limits to the amounts of kava that can be purchased. It's definitely a risk, but I think that it's one worth taking. Imagine a world where kava is as popular as coffee and can be bought on every corner. It's ambitious, but I think that it's possible. We're hoping this will be one of the first big steps toward making this a reality.
 

HeadHodge

Bula To Eternity
That wine menu sounds f-ing amazing. I've said I'm a kavasseur (evenm though there is only one true kavasseur...) but I would love for someone to offer me a leather-bound book with every (safe) strain known to man and then prepare each for me and allow me to sip them and comment on them.
I think it would be really cool if you had every possible strain in stock and could "Mix" them to the chemotype of my preference. That would make you a true mixologist!!

I might even be willing to fly to NYC to check that out.
 

LocalBliss

Finder of the Samoan Kava
Best wishes on your venture, I think its going to be great. I saw a piece on how you and your partner started.

What is the best flavors that goes well with kava?
 

LocalBliss

Finder of the Samoan Kava
also your Kava-bar is going to be a hit because if there's any kinda people that needs calming down its New Yorkers hahaha [no offense]
 

Doobie Doo

How many shells to get to the center..1 2 3
As a born and raised (but long gone) NYC kid, it seems like an interesting idea. Maybe it's the cynic in me, but I can't help but I can't help but wonder if local politics and dept of health will try to get in your way.. Best of success to you!
 
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