Noble Vs Tudei Kava - Megathread

[Kojo Douglas]

What's the example about Salvia supposed to show ?

The FDA doesn't typically make calls based on the safety of a given supplement. They make calls based on its potential for regulation.

 

[verticity]

The narrative was the opposite because of fears that the noble supply would be depleted by exporters, leaving the Islanders with nothing do drink. It was NOT because "two day is good", as you seem to imply.

Let's not forget demand for two day by European and Chinese pharmaceutical companies.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

The testing doesnt translate into whether it would be heady or heavy as much as some hope but it definitley translates as to what is tuedi and what is noble ... and tuedis tend to have more adverse effects which I and many many others choose to keep at a minimal... if their was an authority to this . Then the example of bula house would be mute. But it's not, he is a fully functioning vendor here and no one treats him any less.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Salvia is safe by the way though lol. And a wonderfully sacred herb.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Once again I think you find this much simpler of an issue due to your ability to cope with tuedi... that's like saying that K@ isn't addictive and quite whining because it doesn't effect you like that. Which does happen but In the minority of users. Majority of users would get severely addicted.

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Exactly ...

 

[Zac Imiola (Herbalist)]

Yeah or a dirt Mexican weed being labeled as medicinal cannabis

 

[CactusKava]

My feeling is that there is a discourse that was created when Europe began banning Kava products. Pacific Island nations didn't want to lose an overseas market, so they created a safety standards protocol and a narrative anchored in tradition to support it. For a long time, the narrative was actually the opposite, that PI nations shouldn't export Nobel!

I think you are assuming a problem rather than identifying a problem. Your testing system will always be arbitrary, and the biggest impact it might ever have is to raise the eyebrows of the FDA.

Do you have a source for this? The whole "don't export noble"?

 

[CactusKava]

I want to make sure we all understand your main beliefs about this topic, @Kavasseur , just so we're all clear. There's a lot of crap flying around in this thread, and we need to reign it back in to the basics.

You believe:
1) It's impossible to ensure nobility, because farmers sell their kava crops to a wholesaler, who batches it all up. Who knows what might be mixed in?
2) It's fine to drink tudei, because we're most likely always drinking either tudei or noble spiked with tudei.
3) Attempting to document a kava's specifics is a fruitless endeavor, because each bag from the same wholesaler could have variances.
4) Attempting to control what we consume is fruitless, because of the previous points.

Does this sound correct?

 

[ApéroNoble]

I would prefer that you don't belittle me.

nah I don't think that was the intention lol, Garry's a humble dude, just comes across vexing to some who embark upon detailed debate because he's a thorough fact based individual. That being said I've never seen anyone upon this forum get the better of him in debate.

Before Jimmy cracks corn & locks this thread I've got to post on last daft Seinfeld bit.

Deleted User - "You can't win. You can't beat me. That's why I'm here and you're there. Because I'm a winner. I'll always be a winner and you'll always be a loser."

 

[Kojo Douglas]

I want to make sure we all understand your main beliefs about this topic, @Kavasseur , just so we're all clear. There's a lot of crap flying around in this thread, and we need to reign it back in to the basics.

You believe:
1) It's impossible to ensure nobility, because farmers sell their kava crops to a wholesaler, who batches it all up. Who knows what might be mixed in?
2) It's fine to drink tudei, because we're most likely always drinking either tudei or noble spiked with tudei.
3) Attempting to document a kava's specifics is a fruitless endeavor, because each bag from the same wholesaler could have variances.
4) Attempting to control what we consume is fruitless, because of the previous points.

Does this sound correct?

I would only agree with the first point. But even then only partially. If vendors took an interest in organizing cooperatives, they could ensure more consistency within a batch.

My main point is that it is enough for a vendor to label their Kava and then let the consumers decide what they like. If a vendor is selling crap, people won't drink it. And attempting to test Kavas based on name alone (example: Nakamal at Home "Wow" is or isn't Noble) probably won't create useful information because we haven't yet created the logistics to ensure consistency.

I'm fine with the testing - people can do whatever they want. What I am not fine with is a hegemonic discourse where the entire community just gets behind something that is still in its early stages and may or may not be relevant.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

I guess the big difference here is that I come from a sociological and agribusiness background. I know what farms in the tropics look like. I know what the logistics of food production look like in Pacific Island nations. Getting a bag of Kava somewhere in the midwest of the US and doing a test is far removed from the process of piling dried Kava root and preparing it for export to a capital city from a remote island, and finally to a port somewhere in the US.

 

[CactusKava]

I would only agree with the first point. But even then only partially. If vendors took an interest in organizing cooperatives, they could ensure more consistency within a batch.

My main point is that it is enough for a vendor to label their Kava and then let the consumers decide what they like. If a vendor is selling crap, people won't drink it. And attempting to test Kavas based on name alone (example: Nakamal at Home "Wow" is or isn't Noble) probably won't create useful information because we haven't yet created the logistics to ensure consistency.

I'm fine with the testing - people can do whatever they want. What I am not fine with is a hegemonic discourse where the entire community just gets behind something that is still in its early stages and may or may not be relevant.

I'm glad you cleared that list up. Those points are all the things that I, and I'm sure others, have believed about you, and I think that's where these arguments are coming from. I think we can all agree on many things (without the crazed rage that's come out recently), but we need to stop putting words in each other's mouths.

One more question: Do you agree that, if possible, people should drink purely noble kava?

 

[Kojo Douglas]

One more question: Do you agree that, if possible, people should drink purely noble kava?

I think people should be able to decide for themselves. If they have a choice between Kava that is labeled Noble and Kava that is labeled Tudei or non-Noble, then they should be able to make that decision.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Just to make a point: I have long been a fan of N&H Kavas. But one issue they have is consistency. The first time I drank Wow! Kava I became extraordinarily sick. But every bag I've had since then - sans one - has been stellar. So when I looked at the acetonic tests I surprised to see that Wow! has tested both Tudei and Noble at different times. So when someone looks at the list now, and sees that it is classified as "Noble," they might get a Tudei. What kind of pressure could be put on the vendor to ensure nobility? I'm not sure.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

I loved the European kava ban, I hope we make no moves to help ensure that it doesn't happen to us.