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Wow, super good extraction

hyperdown

Kava Curious
me and my girl gave this a shot last night.

the boiled kava is indeed VERY thick, and numbing. the effects seemed heavier and i felt more slowed down than typical (we are very familiar with the effects of the variety we tested). i didn't notice as much euphoria or sociability as usual. overall, i think i enjoy the experience of cool water extraction better, but will try this again.
 

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
Hi Hyperdown, like I have said, it does seem to change the effect of the kavalactones when you boil it and I like the way you described it, that is exactly how I think it is when you boil over cold water, that is why I do both, it just depends on how I want to feel. Aloha.

Chris
 

violet

Do all things with love
Hi Henry G, I have been selling my 'Awa to herbalist, and natural doctors for over 15 years now and they have used it to treat addiction, even heroin addiction and they have all had great success. It also helped my brother in law stop smoking ciggs. Aloha.

Chris
I've been wanting to stop drinking coffee and other caffeine for a long time. The effects of kava made it very easy for me to drastically cut down for a week and then just quit. I haven't had coffee since 3-4 weeks ago. The only negative effects I experienced was a nagging headache the first couple of days. I had no cravings, mood swings, or anything else out of the ordinary.
 

Crunked

Proselytizer
Does it follow if I use the boil method that the carbohydrate level of the filtered brew will be (substantially) increased over a cold water knead and filter? I am thinking this because of the thickening effect of boiling and Chris referring to the starch in kava.
 

violet

Do all things with love
@Crunked It's possible, and I had the same thought as you as I keep my blood glucose strictly regulated. The few times I have remembered to check my blood glucose readings both before and after a kava session there has been no significant variability in the measurements. With the idea that the boiling water breaks down the starches, I thought for sure I would see a small spike, but I did not the one time I checked my readings before and after a session using the boiling method. Next time I boil my kava I will try to remember testing again to see if I get any different results. (I have no problems with glucose metabolism beyond being human, but I like knowing how everything I consume impacts my blood glucose and insulin response.)
 
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Crunked

Proselytizer
Many thanks Violet. Please let me know as I watch my carbs too and I don't have a way to test my blood glucose. :watching:
 

violet

Do all things with love
@Crunked I sure will. It may be a little bit before I get more root though, but I'll report back once the experimenting is back on :)
 

kavadude

❦ॐ tanuki tamer
Hay Kavadude, I was just thinking about the stomach discomfort you got when you tried the boiled kava, I think you said you used Fijian, well Fijian kava is known to have that effect, that is why I am very picky about the Fijian kava that I get and sell. I have never had that problem with Hawaiian varieties. Aloha.

Chris
I've tried it three times now with trad. prep and since it didn't cause any sort of nausea I'm inclined to blame the boiling for the discomfort. That said it could be psychological.

@violet That's pretty hardcore. How are you tracking your blood glucose?
 

Ecto

Train by day, Kava by night....All day
Many thanks Violet. Please let me know as I watch my carbs too and I don't have a way to test my blood glucose. :watching:
Hi @Crunked I just happened to read this comment thread before my session tonight so I used my glucometer as a test for you. Not diabetic but I have access to one and, like Violet, I love seeing how things affect the body.

7:45 - 77mg/dl (prior to Kava with a 4 hour fast)
8:05 - Kava session using boiling method. 7 tablespoons of BKH Boroguru in 3 cups water (2 boiling, 1 cold) with Water for a "chaser"
8:35 - "Peak" of Kava effects (subjective)
8:35 - 73mg/dl
9:05 - 79mg/dl
10:05 - 78mg/dl

So it looks like for me personally, this prep method had little to no effect on my blood sugar levels. Keep in mind this was just my experience for one session....not scientific but better than nothing I suppose. As for the method.....it just wasn't for me. I prefer to drink as little amount of liquid as possible. Chugging 1 1/2 cups of potent grog is much easier for me than 3 cups of watered down grog. Also, the effects are much more powerful for me with the traditional cool water kneed and squeeze. As with anything your mileage may vary.
 

violet

Do all things with love
@kavadude I'm not too militant about it now since I've been doing it off and on for a few years, I pretty much know how any specific food raises (or doesn't raise) my blood glucose. If you were referencing how in relation to kava, exactly the way as Ecto outlined above. When I get into an experimental mood, I might take readings every 20 minutes for a couple of hours watching the spike and fall in reaction to what I ate. I can usually tell by how I feel what the numbers will be before I do a reading.
 
D

Deleted User01

Chris, I remember Infraredz posted a study a few months ago. I have the chart somewhere around here but it seemed like the chart said that bringing Kava to 113 F had a significant effect on extraction (up to 40 percent I think). You might be able to search the forum for that. Chris, find that study if you can and let us know what you think about it. I'm getting read to make Kava this Sunday (I make and bottle). I use Water and Coconut water so I would probably microwave with water and Kava to boiling, add a few ice cubes, and then add cooler Coconut water. I'm afraid of the Coconut water seizing up and creating Kludge at High Temps so I gotta be careful.
 

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
Hi Everyone, yes I have seen that study that you were talking about Deleted User01. Skip Bittrnbender was one of the people who wrote it, he is a friend of mine and he sends me all the studies that he does or comes across, I know most all the guys in the kava circle, from scientists to processors, to Chris Kilham, Dr Lebot, Dr Nelson, CS Tang to other farmers, but I find that it is very interesting to learn about the users, like all of is here. When reading the posts I am justified in my thinking of certain things that I notice about kava and things like that and I have noticed that you guys like to describe how each kind of kava works, like the knogyak (spelling?) The thing is that for the Hawaiian varieties I can say that they are hard to do that to, they rely a lot on how they are grown, I have noticed that the kava from the other kava producing areas is different and for the most part can be relied upon.
Hawaiian is different, you can get a Hawaiian 'Awa and it is a 5 year old plant but it is not strong and when you harvest it and cut into it, it is white not yellow like it should be, the more the yellow the more the kavalactones.
It depends on how it is grown and if you take care of it, to give you an idea, when I was teaching at a Hawaiian immersion school about 'Awa (They only speak Hawaiian there) we did a project called the Lepo 'Ola project, we made the soil and we did it all naturally the way the Hawaiians did, the 'awa we planted there was 'Awa Nene and in 1 year it was bigger than a 5 year old plant, there are ways of growing that will increase the size and the kavalactone content, some of these ways I have developed and perfected.
That being said When Skip was over here during the last Kava symposium we had talked about this paper he wrote and I told him that I boil mine and how much I boil it, sometimes I go more than in the video but not much, you just got to make sure there is enough water or the starch will thicken like gravy.
The melting point of most kavalactones is about 130 degrees and there boiling point is a lot higher than boiling water, so the boiling method is just another way of doing it, I still use cold and boiling, it depends on how I feel and how I want to feel, I am sure most of you have noticed that it does change the effect of the kava. So I guess it is like this----Does heat destroy kavalactones? Well yes if the heat is way high and for a long time, if you put your hands next to a fire to warm them up that is fine but if you get too close or heat them up too long then your hands will be hurt or in the case of the kavalactones, destroyed.
I had a friend in Waipio Valley, there is a lot of 'Awa down in the back of the valley, anyway this old timer was boiling some 1/2 inch sized chunks of 'awa root, he was boiling it for over 1 hr and I tried some and WOW, it was very strong, but you do not need to boil it that long, just till it starts to coagulate the starch is fine or even for 10 min is fine.
I have tried baking kava and having it tested and I baked it and tested it at 3 different intervals, it takes a lot to make the kava noticeably weaker but it will happen in the oven a lot quicker than boiling it. You can not bake with it, if you make kava bread it will just be bad tasting bread and have no effect, I knew one guy that would dry his kava in a dry box he made and it got too hot and it would make the kava taste bad, it tasted baked or roasted and it was not good.
So far after years of testing the cold water extraction and the boiling method is what I use, that is all, I also use a set amount so that I know if a kava is strong normal or weak.
I will be harvesting some Hawaiian Mo'i in the next week or so and it will be on my website for sale along with some other kava.
When you try some real good Hawaiian you will see what I mean, it is just some real good stuff. :D
Aloha to all.

Chris
 
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kavadude

❦ॐ tanuki tamer
That's a very interesting post Chris. There was a well known Hawaiian vendor that sold kava that everyone on the old forums regarded as bunk (I myself never tried it). I was wondering how you could even create bunk kava -- my only guess was that maybe the plants were harvested far too early. Actually, I've never tried any Hawaiian 'awa -- yours will be the first, hurry up and post it :)
 

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
Hey Kava dude, it is strange but I have harvested 'awa myself from other growers and processed it and tried it and it was kind of like how you described the other Hawaiian vendor (it is sad, I know this guy and I never had any good 'awa from him, but I do have high standards, so it might be good so some but not for me), I have tried his and I still have just under a pound if you want it, I am going to end up throwing it away. I hate it when they think they are growing good 'awa but they are not. There are other growers that grow good 'awa here in Hawaii but most do not sell, they use it or sell it locally. When you try mine you will see a difference firs of all in the powder, it is finer and does not have as much large particles and it is kind of clumpy is how I wold describe it, if you squeeze some powder in your hand it will kind of stay in a clump, that shows the kavalactone content is good, kavalactones are very sticky. A friend of mine has a CO2 extractor and he does all kinds of extracts over here and I had him do some 'awa and when I got it back, I got a bunch of bright yellow sticky stuff, this is what they would use to add a carrier to and spray dry onto the carrier and that is how they make the 30% powder extract. If you put some of this in your mouth it will stick to the roof of your mouth and your tongue and teeth, your mouth will be very numb but it is not a good way of using this product, you need to make a tincture or some other product, or put it in capsules. And by the way since this post has to do with heat, when my friend did the 'awa extract he had to bring the 'awa to a 164 degrees for optimal extraction, and the kavalactones are alive :D
It might be a few weeks before I have the Hawaiian root processed, it takes about a week to dry depending on if it is raining or not but I will make a post when I have any 'awa ready for sale, I will have some from Vanuatu and Tonga maybe this week or the beginning of next week. Aloha.

Chris
 

Crunked

Proselytizer
The melting point of most kavalactones is about 130 degrees and there boiling point is a lot higher than boiling water, so the boiling method is just another way of doing it, I still use cold and boiling, it depends on how I feel and how I want to feel, I am sure most of you have noticed that it does change the effect of the kava. Chris
Chris, if the melting point is 130F, what is the benefit of 'boiling' the mixture? Is it just to change the effect, i.e. more body effect, less cerebral effect?
 

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
HI Crunked, the benefit is that you are rupturing the cell walls and letting out more kavalactones than just the cold water method. It seems like there are some that are not doing it right so I am going to make another video in more detail so that everyone can understand it and know how it looks, and all that good stuff. I think boiling is just to make it more potent and change the effect, that is why I do both methods, just depends on what I want at the time. The final product should not be like gravy but it might be thicker than the cold water method. Aloha.

Chris
 
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