KeepOnKrunkin'
Kava Enthusiast
I've been drinking kava just about daily as long as I've been a member here & my lab results prove it has done (0) liver damage.
Proof of kava's lack of liver toxicity
- Thread starter KeepOnKrunkin'
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Steve T
Kava Enthusiast
That is not a liver function test, and even if it was I certainly wouldn't call it a proof.
This is my liver function test after drinking only noble kava:
SGPT (ALT)2 - 60 U/L85
And this is my liver function test 2 weeks later, after quitting kava:
SGPT (ALT)2 - 60 U/L47
That is proof that kava can cause liver damage. Scientific proofs usually work by taking a hypothesis, trying to prove the opposite to be true, finding no counterexamples, and therefore concluding that the opposite is impossible. I proved that the opposite is true, and therefore kava can still cause liver damage as it always has. Please don't mislead people when health and possibly lives are at stake.
This is my liver function test after drinking only noble kava:
SGPT (ALT)2 - 60 U/L85
And this is my liver function test 2 weeks later, after quitting kava:
SGPT (ALT)2 - 60 U/L47
That is proof that kava can cause liver damage. Scientific proofs usually work by taking a hypothesis, trying to prove the opposite to be true, finding no counterexamples, and therefore concluding that the opposite is impossible. I proved that the opposite is true, and therefore kava can still cause liver damage as it always has. Please don't mislead people when health and possibly lives are at stake.
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This is a worrying turn of events; along with the other guy's 'pale stool kicked by mules' thread who seems to show signs of acute liver damage.
tomkrat
Kava Enthusiast
i could be totally off base here but isn't it actually just proof that you had different liver function test results? Can you be certain that kava was the only variable that changed between those tests? Those numbers don't necessarily mean that kava was damaging your liver do they? It seems to me that they mean your liver was functioning at a different level each time you were tested.
Yes as I thought about it more I realised that is not scientific.
Its known as subjective validation. It could well be that the quitting of kava caused the stats to drop but it also could well be that it was something completely differnet. Maybe you had some odd virus that didnt show up. Who knows.
Youve also mentioned being a heavy drinker in the past so maybe you're liver is more susceptible to such things from previous damage.
The only way to say conclusively would be to repeat the test several times and produce the same results each time. A scientific theory must have predictive accuracy. Not saying youd want to risk more damage by repeating your usage but just saying.
Its like if you scratched your head before hitting a home run once immiediately attributing the head scratching to the homerun.
Likewise I realised that me going in for one liver test wouldnt be scientific either. Though one for me would still be better than non cos 1 it would get me some info on my body that I have aboslutely no idea about, and 2 get me over my mental blockage about visitng doctors so Id be more inclined to take tests in future.
Its known as subjective validation. It could well be that the quitting of kava caused the stats to drop but it also could well be that it was something completely differnet. Maybe you had some odd virus that didnt show up. Who knows.
Youve also mentioned being a heavy drinker in the past so maybe you're liver is more susceptible to such things from previous damage.
The only way to say conclusively would be to repeat the test several times and produce the same results each time. A scientific theory must have predictive accuracy. Not saying youd want to risk more damage by repeating your usage but just saying.
Its like if you scratched your head before hitting a home run once immiediately attributing the head scratching to the homerun.
Likewise I realised that me going in for one liver test wouldnt be scientific either. Though one for me would still be better than non cos 1 it would get me some info on my body that I have aboslutely no idea about, and 2 get me over my mental blockage about visitng doctors so Id be more inclined to take tests in future.
verticity
I'm interested in things
OK, @KeepOnKrunkin' maybe you should revise the title of the thread again to "Proof that KeepOnKrunkin' has normal metabolic function (and is not diabetic)" since @Steve T is correct I don't see your liver results there. Or if you you do have liver results, you could post those...
Steve T
Kava Enthusiast
I am particularly enjoying this summer because lately I've been remembering last summer, which was nothing more than an unenjoyable waste. It was a waste because I was drinking kava, I was constantly fatigued, disoriented, struggled with work, and had no idea what was causing it. My quality of life was horrible. It was especially bad for the month that I drank tudei (marked as "Vanuatu" from Amazon), and the month after where I drank Melo Melo and Borogoru (which later turned out to be spiked with tudei), and when I switched to noble it was still really bad but not as bad.
I had no idea what was causing it because the thought of kava causing any sort of health problems was "impossible" according to some members here and some studies that circulated around. I felt like I had a severe illness like cancer. I had an emergency doctor's visit around the Borogoru month June because I was very ill and had heart palpitations, but really I wanted to see if I had a severe illness. When I mentioned my symptoms on here one person even said something like "just don't bring up kava to the doctors, we don't want you ruining its reputation." I was so reluctant to give up kava because it seemed impossible that it was causing my problems, and I liked the habit of drinking it.
When I say that I felt like I had cancer for 6 months, and I lost weight, and my photos during that time look like I'm 10 years older, and when my girlfriend's mother saw these photos recently she told my gf to break up with me because I was hiding a terminal illness, please don't imply that I'm too stupid to know the difference between kava hepatoxicity and random liver activity. The LFT was after months of suffering.
It is very simple. I went for a LFT, it was elevated when I drank kava, and it dropped to normal after I abstained from kava. Then my symptoms slowly went away and I had more energy. If someone has a problem with this extremely simple logic then you are deluding yourself.
I only said that kava can cause liver damage, I never once said that it's guaranteed with all people. I didn't attempt to prove that "kava always causes liver damage," I just pointed out that the original post here is not proof and it is not correct at all. It isn't even a liver function test. It blatantly misleads people.
I have no motivation here except to save a few people the trouble that I went through, of wasting around 9 months of my life feeling ill all the time, and the substantial cost per month of doing so since good kava isn't cheap. Therefore, if you see a person who may belong to the group of 5-10% of NOBLE kava drinkers who have liver issues; if someone complains about pale stools like recently, do me a favor and don't pretend like kava is safe and the person is the problem. Don't be stupid, the person needs help. I may be a party pooper from some people's perspective but honestly I don't care, I would just as happily inform an alcoholic friend of how alcohol affected my body. And by the way, 3+ years ago when I last drank, I felt much better the next day after alcohol than I did when drinking kava.
If you think that I am incorrect or my test results aren't real then you are either 1) highly suspicious because it's the internet and you don't know me, or 2) you are being flat out stupid, and struggling with your own internal conflict about kava which has nothing to do with reality.
One may conclude whatever they want from my data/experience: that noble kava is safe but not intended for every day use, that genetically some people's livers don't fair well with any type of kava, or whatever. But you certainly cannot say that noble kava is proven to be safe, because I provided an irrefutable counter example.
I had no idea what was causing it because the thought of kava causing any sort of health problems was "impossible" according to some members here and some studies that circulated around. I felt like I had a severe illness like cancer. I had an emergency doctor's visit around the Borogoru month June because I was very ill and had heart palpitations, but really I wanted to see if I had a severe illness. When I mentioned my symptoms on here one person even said something like "just don't bring up kava to the doctors, we don't want you ruining its reputation." I was so reluctant to give up kava because it seemed impossible that it was causing my problems, and I liked the habit of drinking it.
When I say that I felt like I had cancer for 6 months, and I lost weight, and my photos during that time look like I'm 10 years older, and when my girlfriend's mother saw these photos recently she told my gf to break up with me because I was hiding a terminal illness, please don't imply that I'm too stupid to know the difference between kava hepatoxicity and random liver activity. The LFT was after months of suffering.
It is very simple. I went for a LFT, it was elevated when I drank kava, and it dropped to normal after I abstained from kava. Then my symptoms slowly went away and I had more energy. If someone has a problem with this extremely simple logic then you are deluding yourself.
I only said that kava can cause liver damage, I never once said that it's guaranteed with all people. I didn't attempt to prove that "kava always causes liver damage," I just pointed out that the original post here is not proof and it is not correct at all. It isn't even a liver function test. It blatantly misleads people.
I have no motivation here except to save a few people the trouble that I went through, of wasting around 9 months of my life feeling ill all the time, and the substantial cost per month of doing so since good kava isn't cheap. Therefore, if you see a person who may belong to the group of 5-10% of NOBLE kava drinkers who have liver issues; if someone complains about pale stools like recently, do me a favor and don't pretend like kava is safe and the person is the problem. Don't be stupid, the person needs help. I may be a party pooper from some people's perspective but honestly I don't care, I would just as happily inform an alcoholic friend of how alcohol affected my body. And by the way, 3+ years ago when I last drank, I felt much better the next day after alcohol than I did when drinking kava.
If you think that I am incorrect or my test results aren't real then you are either 1) highly suspicious because it's the internet and you don't know me, or 2) you are being flat out stupid, and struggling with your own internal conflict about kava which has nothing to do with reality.
One may conclude whatever they want from my data/experience: that noble kava is safe but not intended for every day use, that genetically some people's livers don't fair well with any type of kava, or whatever. But you certainly cannot say that noble kava is proven to be safe, because I provided an irrefutable counter example.
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Runding
Kava Enthusiast
I guess you could say @Steve T is on a noble crusade?
I've always found it odd when people like yourself basically hate something so much they're compelled to involve themselves in communities that enjoy it just to "warn the masses"
But to each their own. Kava has greatly increased my quality of life including my relationships with those around me. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.
I've always found it odd when people like yourself basically hate something so much they're compelled to involve themselves in communities that enjoy it just to "warn the masses"
But to each their own. Kava has greatly increased my quality of life including my relationships with those around me. I'm sorry you had such a bad experience.
Blippy5
Certified Noble
I've been enjoying kava for almost 3 months, daily. I have experienced no problems. Many members here have done so for years. We believe kava to be generally safe.
Obviously, we are not medical professionals. If a person is concerned they should see thier doctor.
KavaCat
Meow.
To add to this thought, Steve stated in his older threads that he was drinking 5+ TBSP of kava per day, up to 8 TBSP. Most of us who have been drinking kava for a while, would consider that an extremely heavy amount. I believe that taking so much of any non-food substance every single day is likely to mess with your liver enzymes. When was it ever supposed to get a break? I can barely even get through 2 TBSP of micro these days.
I too have had liver tests done, back during a time when I was having kava 3+ times a week, and it was normal for me.
Right this is just what I thought.
I had one TEAspoon yesterday of kaolik and felt a bit ill even from that. I could not imagine taking 8 tablespoons even once let alone every day.
I mean what would happen if you drank 30 gallons of water a day for instance :/. This seems like a similar case.
wormwood
Kava Enthusiast
The leading cause for liver failure in this country is no longer drinking, it is actually Tylenol. That doesn't mean that Tylenol cannot be used safely. And kava has had such an incredibly positive impact on my life and the life of others, that it must be noted and made aware and available to others. This does not mean that its for everybody and it does not mean that it cannot be abused. But if it does not work well for somebody then that is no reason to discount the landslide of positive reviews and bloodwork that we have telling the opposite story. But it is important, also, to consider that it may not be for everybody. In fact, I would be surprised if it were for everybody. As virtually nothing is. I tossed and washed Kava until my skin was peeling off for months and my bloodwork came back flawless. Correlation does not always imply causation, also it is possibly to get a contaminated batch of kava.
I know that for me kava has changed my life and has significantly reduced my anxiety to very tolerable levels, and my bloodwork is phenomenal. So in light of a negative review here and there, I have no reason but to urge others to try it. But with the warning that they need to start slow and use common sense in monitoring themselves. But the bottom line is that the potential benefits of Kava FAR outweigh the negatives for MOST. In fact, its benefit to side effect ratio is immeasurably more favorable than virtually any drug on the market, either prescribed or illicit.
I know that for me kava has changed my life and has significantly reduced my anxiety to very tolerable levels, and my bloodwork is phenomenal. So in light of a negative review here and there, I have no reason but to urge others to try it. But with the warning that they need to start slow and use common sense in monitoring themselves. But the bottom line is that the potential benefits of Kava FAR outweigh the negatives for MOST. In fact, its benefit to side effect ratio is immeasurably more favorable than virtually any drug on the market, either prescribed or illicit.
50ShadesOfKava
Official Kava Muppet
Just had my liver checked out after 6 months of daily use. My doctor said I had one of the healthiest livers she had seen all day! ALT 25. Much better than 2 years ago when I was binge drinking. Kava is helping me heal! Im now a big believer in the Noble kava being harmless (at least to liver) theory. Interestingly I followed the two links provided by my doctor on kava and what NIH knows about it thus far. Granted it does not differentiate between Noble kavas vs wild varieties sometimes found in some medicines that likely started the whole kava vilifying concerns, so take it with a grain of salt and the information provided in this form. Also the known medicine interactions sections are rather interesting. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/druginfo/natural/872.html and https://nccih.nih.gov/health/kava They never seem to note gas though 
Heres to science.
Heres to science.- Status