More pictures of Simple Test for Checking if your Kava is Tudei

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

Hi everyone, here are some pictures of the 100% foolproof solvent test.

This test has proven to be 100% accurate in showing if the kava is tudei or not, but I wanted to see what it would show if I tested noble kava that was spiked with tudei kava. In this case it was spiked with Isa.
I tested 3 different noble kava's and then I did a 50/50 mix of noble and Isa, then the 1/4 Isa to 3/4 noble and then 1/8 isa to 7/8 noble.

Here are the results.

The first picture is of 7 samples, starting with the left side and going right the first 3 are the noble kava.


The next picture is 4 different samples next to each other, starting on the left the first is pure noble, 2nd is 1/8 isa to 7/8, 3rd is 1/4 isa to 3/4, the 4th is 100% isa.


The next picture is 3 different noble kava's


This picture is of the sample that is 1/8 isa to 7/8 noble kava.


The next picture shows 2 samples, the one on the left is the 1/4 isa and 3/4 noble, the one on the right is 50/50.


The last picture is of the 100% isa, tudei kava.


This picture is of the stalks of the kava plant, there is more of a brown color and not as dark or orange so this is not the reason for the orange color in Tudei solvent tests.


This picture is of the kava leaves, and like I expected it would be green from the chloraphyl in the leaves, nice green color, again not the reason for the orange color in the tudei kava.


This picture is of my CO2 extract, a nice golden color typical of the noble kava. It seems to be more of a light golden color, more so than the powdered root of the noble kava, this is probably because it is very close to being pure kavalactones and the powdered root has all the other stuff in there to. I do not have any of the powdered extract, like the 30% and other extracts that are coming out of China, a lot if not all of them were made with tudei kava, I think this extract will show the orange color in the solvent test.


This is a picture of my CO2 extract, this is the nice yellow color of the noble kava. This is actually from Hawaiian Moi.


This is a picture of the resin that oozes out of the Isa stalks. The solvent could not desolve this and the color remained clear, it did not even soften the resin. I wonder what is in this resin, the stalks and the leaves of the kava contain 2 kavalactoned, the DHK and DHM. Maybe this resin is concentrated DHK and DHM, any volunteers to try this.


Notice that even with the small 1/8 amount of Tudei kava you can still see that small change in color. Your noble kava should be nice and golden as you can see in the picture of the 3 golden noble kava tests.

If it looks a bit darker almost cloudy then it is spiked, and as you can see the other concentrations of the Isa to the noble are clearly evident in the color, it is not that light golden color.


For instructions on how to do this solvent test see the post by infraredz here----http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/thr...-tudei-please-read-if-youre-new-to-kava.2451/

Aloha nui loa.

Chris

 

[KAVATOM]

Nice, thanks!

 

[violet]

Interesting. The last picture I put up, a kava that I called "okay" (although it was a little questionable in my mind) was a darker gold than the noble I tested as a control. I wonder if the double bonded lactones could also have something to do with the hue? @infraredz

 

[Deleted User01]

Good question Violet. Here is another question, if the Kava is mixed with the upper parts of the Kava plant (the bad parts), will it also turn orange? Noble Kava has to be roots and lower stalk only. The plant material above that is problematic.

I know the vendors hate these tests but how the hell do they know what they are getting when they order barrels of Kava from somewhere in the South Seas? They need to start testing it themselves. Chris told me earlier that he always tests his Kava whether he buys it (Vanuatu Kava) or grows it. And of course he tests for percent of Kavalactones and chemotypes. We ain't picking on anyone, we just want to know what we are putting into our bodies. Some members deliberately buy Tudie and I say, "free country". Just label it if that is what you are selling. Sorry about the rant ....

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

I'd probably still drink the 1/8 isa, not sure i'd be able to tell it's slightly different unless I had a lighter one next to it. and even then i might just assume my root to solvent ratio may have been a bit different.

I did this test once because I suspected my strong heavy Waka that I always buy, might be Tudei. So I compared with Melo Melo and Boroguru.
Surprisingly, it came out clear and golden. Boroguru actually came out a bit darker, but, I kind of expected it to because the root material was darker to begin with. Although, I don't know if that should actually affect it or not.
....and no, i'm not saying i suspect my boroguru to be spiked.

 

[Deleted User01]

Careful what you say Shakas... the Kava police will come and get ya. You know, the ones in the black van.

 

[infraredz]

Interesting. The last picture I put up, a kava that I called "okay" (although it was a little questionable in my mind) was a darker gold than the noble I tested as a control. I wonder if the double bonded lactones could also have something to do with the hue? @infraredz

I don't know about the double-bonded lactones, or lactones in general being responsible for the color, though it is possible, I believe it's due to the chalcones or another compound in kava.
My hypothesis is that the pigmentation is due to the presence and/or the abundance of compounds in tudei kava that are present or more abundant in tudei kava than in noble kava.

Method:
From what I have learned, the test is generally performed with:
10g of powder [~10mL], and 30mL of acetone (or other nonpolar, organic solvent).

10g of Kava generally translates to around 10mL of kava, though mL is measurement of a liquid but this gives a "easier" ratio to understand if you can use a measuring device.

What is important in these tests is that a controlled and constant amount of kava is used, as well as a controlled and constant amount of solvent.
We need to keep these amounts constant in order to be able to accurately determine the color, otherwise we can get differing results.

I would recommend that everyone who uses this solvent test try to keep these amounts as close to constant as they can, and this is what I have been informed is the "correct" amount of solvent/kava: 10g of powder to 30ml of acetone (or other suitable nonpolar organic solvent).

Hypothesis
FKB (and flavokavains in general), is/are chalcones which is a natural biological compound and is an intermediary to flavonoids (which is another type of natural biological compound, common in fruit and vegetables and currently the subject of an abundance of positive health effects).
When chalcones undergo conversion (conjugate ring closure) in the plant they result in flavonoids. This step is quite simple, and what you could say is a "simple" metabolism.

I propose that it is not unreasonable to assume that the presence of FKB )or other flavokavains) can cause an increase or difference in the formation of flavonoids (which then have color properties). Of course, this also could be due to a compound that is not found in noble kava, as noble kava is genetically distinct from tudei kava as Lebot has exhaustively documented.

My supposition is that the yellow vs orange tincture could be due to the presence and/or abundance of flavones or flavonoids (in tudei kava). For instance, FKB might result in an orange tint or color whereas noble kava (that has far less FKB/FKs, and therefore less substrate [chalcones] being converted to a flavonoid with an orange color) results in a "lighter" color of yellow whereas a higher concentration of FKB corresponds to a higher concentration of a flavonoid that results in an orange color.

Here is another question, if the Kava is mixed with the upper parts of the Kava plant (the bad parts), will it also turn orange?

I believe that Chris would be able to conduct such a test as he has such great access to the "materials" needed for this

It would be interesting to determine if the aerial portions of the plant contain distinct compounds that are not present in the root, other than of course, pipermethystine. From what I've heard, the leaves do contain the heavier, double bonded kavalactones DHM and DHK, though they contain other compounds as well, and this can be said with certainty. What those compounds are, and if they are present in the root, and if so and what concentration, isn't something that I immediately know of the top of my head.

 

[infraredz]

and even then i might just assume my root to solvent ratio may have been a bit different.

This is why it is vital to keep the volumes and amounts of solvent/kava constant: 10g [or 10mL] of powder to 30ml of acetone.

I would recommend that everyone who uses this solvent test try to keep these amounts as close to constant as they can.

This is what I have been informed is the "correct" amount of solvent/kava: 10g of powder to 30ml of acetone.

[This translates to around 10mL of kava, though mL is measurement of a liquid but this gives a "easier" ratio to understand.]


Also, for evaluation of the supernatant's hue, saturation and darkness, I would recommend that there be a "standard" for evaluating the color since the different types of glass (if it's clean, thick, etc) can have an impact on what you see visually, as well as if the glasses are backlit, white/color balance of the photograph/camera, exposure values of the photograph, contrast of the photograph, etc.

However, all this being said, as long as people try to keep the correct ratio of solvent/kava: 10g of powder to 30ml of acetone, we should still be able to use this as a way of simply qualitative analysis.

 

[Deleted User01]

Translation. Use 1 part kava to 3 parts acetone. From Ed Johnsons book: Leaves and peelings from stems contain another class of compounds called ALKALOIDS and these Alkaloids are potentially dangerous to ingest. He goes on to say, that Liver toxcity could be associated with contamination with alkaloid-containing raw materials, such as stem peelings. And he ends with Just Drink Hawaiian Nobel Kava and everything will be ok. Hey, the guy is pro Hawaiian. One of Chris's buddies.

 

[HeadHodge]

Wow this is really awesome stuff.

Maybe we should think of changing the term "Noble Kava" to "Golden Kava". That way if it's "Golden" then you know you are.... well.... golden.

It would also stop the ongoing controversy (or confusion) of people saying that a Kava can't be noble unless it comes Vanuatu.

 

[Deleted User01]

It would also stop the ongoing controversy (or confusion) of people saying that a Kava can't be noble unless it comes Vanuatu.

There is no confusion or controversy. Chris assures me that Kava is only Noble if it comes from Hawaii.

 

[infraredz]

I think it is confusion rather than controversy.

The lexicon of the Oceanic countries that produce and export kava is obviously vastly different, but when it comes to identification purposes, there is a standard that is in the process of being implemented.
Especially for the purposes of our forum, we can absolutely decide to refer to kava that is suitable for daily drinking as "noble" and kava that is not suitable for daily drinking as "tudei" if everyone agrees to use this terminology.

The term noble has been used by Dr. Mathias Schmidt and other leading researchers in various symposiums and publications, and it is safe to say that a Codex is being developed to address these issues for standardization purposes.

Lebot himself has said, "I cannot see why it would be improper to refer to other good kava varieties, from other Pacific Island Countries, as nobles. If they are good, it means that they have been nobilized. There is no patent on the Vanuatu Kava Act word 'noble' it can be used for other good kavas elsewhere, and the same can be said for two-days (isa is a two-day) and wichmannii kava varieties.
The main thing is for people to understand what we are referring to: quality per se"

DISCUSSION PAPER ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF A STANDARD FOR KAVA PRODUCTS

Regardless of semantics, we can agree that there are kavas that are suitable for daily drinking, kavas that are not suitable for daily drinking.
Kavas that are suitable for daily drinking will test yellow, kavas that are not suitable for daily drinking with show an orange or red color.

 

[Deleted User01]

So do we just start calling them "suitable" and get rid of the Tudie word? "Suitable" could be our new code word.
Or Suitable for Daily Use. SDU. "That Kava is not SDU according to the Acetone test. But you'all can still horse it down. No biggie."

 

[HeadHodge]

So do we just start calling them "suitable" and get rid of the Tudie word? "Suitable" could be our new code word.
Or Suitable for Daily Use. SDU. "That Kava is not SDU according to the Acetone test. But you'all can still horse it down. No biggie."

That sounds good to me. Better than "unsuitable". If someone insists on a term though, maybe "not recommended for Daily Use" would be good.

 

[Deleted User01]

"You'all got a bad liver test huh? And you are calling your lawyer??? You told me you didn't care if it was SDU or not? What's that you said about the label? Whoa there little feller, Whoa ...." This is a public announcement message. Don't let this happen to you. Truth in labeling is always the safe way to go.

 

[infraredz]

Just to clarify some things regarding the term "noble", this is what Dr. Mathias Schmidt has told me:

"On the High Level Kava Conference in Port Vila, Vanuatu in 2012 there were participants and representatives from all over the South Pacific. The term "noble kava“ was generally adopted, and it was decided to bring a regional standard to Codex Alimentarius."

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

Interesting. The last picture I put up, a kava that I called "okay" (although it was a little questionable in my mind) was a darker gold than the noble I tested as a control. I wonder if the double bonded lactones could also have something to do with the hue? @infraredz

Hi everyone, I did test other parts of the kava plant, I tested the stalks, leaves, my CO2 extract and even this unusual resin that oozes out of the stalks of the Isa plant I added some more pictures above that will show these additional tests. Aloha.

Chris

 

[kavadude]

Excellent work, Chris. Thank you for putting in all the time and effort.

 

[HeadHodge]

I think it is confusion rather than controversy.

The lexicon of the Oceanic countries that produce and export kava is obviously vastly different, but when it comes to identification purposes, there is a standard that is in the process of being implemented.
Especially for the purposes of our forum, we can absolutely decide to refer to kava that is suitable for daily drinking as "noble" and kava that is not suitable for daily drinking as "tudei" if everyone agrees to use this terminology.

The term noble has been used by Dr. Mathias Schmidt and other leading researchers in various symposiums and publications, and it is safe to say that a Codex is being developed to address these issues for standardization purposes.

Lebot himself has said, "I cannot see why it would be improper to refer to other good kava varieties, from other Pacific Island Countries, as nobles. If they are good, it means that they have been nobilized. There is no patent on the Vanuatu Kava Act word 'noble' it can be used for other good kavas elsewhere, and the same can be said for two-days (isa is a two-day) and wichmannii kava varieties.
The main thing is for people to understand what we are referring to: quality per se"

DISCUSSION PAPER ON THE DEVELOPMENT OF A STANDARD FOR KAVA PRODUCTS

Regardless of semantics, we can agree that there are kavas that are suitable for daily drinking, kavas that are not suitable for daily drinking.
Kavas that are suitable for daily drinking will test yellow, kavas that are not suitable for daily drinking with show an orange or red color.

You know @infraredz, your post would be a good thread on it's own for the Kavapedia.

 

[Monkava'd]

Good god that last picture, Chris, sort of frightens me.
Edited- After lurking I know your name well enough.