Kava Research Dr. Xing: "Hepatotoxic Risk due to wrong Cultivar [...] and that Cultivar is 'Tudei' Kava"

[infraredz]

[EDIT]For those who are unfamiliar with what "tudei" and "noble" refer to, please visit this page which describes the definitions of these terms before proceeding.
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/wiki/kava-definitions/[/EDIT]


http://www.naturalproductsinsider.c...der-tv-new-science-may-boost-kava-market.aspx

[TRANSCRIPT compiled from video]
Interviewer:
Hello I’m Steve Myers, Senior Editor at Natural Products Insider Magazine and I’m here at the 13th annual Oxford International Conference on the science and regulation of botanicals here at University of Mississippi.

With me is Dr. Chris Xing, Associate Professor in the Department of Medicinal Chemistry at University of Minnesota. Thanks for joining us Dr. Xing.

Dr. Xing.
“It is my pleasure to be here”
Interviewer:
In your presentation today you talk in great detail about the rise, the fall and the resurrection of Kava.

When you look at what history tells us what, you’ve learned up to this date with any new research, and you assess the risk and the benefit of Kava. What Kava can do for people and what the risks are taking Kava, what have we learned about each side of that equation including the different cultivars?

Dr. Xing:
Alright so as you mentioned that, Kava has had a rise at the fall and right now it looks like it’s coming back and Kava was used as an anxiolytic in Europe for a number of years in Europe and it was pulled from the market because there were rare hepatotoxic cases observed among Kava users.

And recently it was found that, the kava was demonstrated to have very strong anxiolytic activity in recent clinical trials, double blinded randomized trials and it’s hepatotoxic risk is probably due to a wrong cultivar, not recommended for traditional use. And that cultivar is called, "Tudie kava".

And the reason that the Tudei kava got into the market, is because mainly, because it grows faster and offers a higher yield.

But it turned out over recent analysis in combination with the work from [inaudible] demonstrated that this Tudei contains higher level of a certain type of chemical that can deplete Glutathione that compromises the liver function for detoxification function which may contribute to the observed hepatotoxicity among kava users.

So, given that we understand the cause of the hepatotoxic risk and recent clinical validation of kava’s anxiolytic activity, we believe that, Kava, with proper standardization, removing its hepatotoxic species, starting with the right starting materials go through the quality controls, it will benefit human as an anxiolytic and as a dietary supplement.

Interviewer:
Wow, very fascinating developments with Kava. Thank you for joining us here today and for all the great information.

Dr. Xing:
Thank you. It is my pleasure

Interviewer:
Thanks for tuning in and check out our other videos from here at the International Botanical Conference here at the University of Mississippi.

 

[Deleted User01]

Infraredz, that's a nice link. All kinds of goodies on that page.

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

Well now that is the confirmation we need. I have always said that the Tudei kava was bad and the Pacific Island people who have used kava for so very long, hundreds, if not thousands of years have never considered the Tudei kava to be used for every day drinking. They ONLY used it medicinally and ceremonially.

When I met with Dr. Xing I had asked him about this and he did say that the Tudei kava had some active components that were hepatotoxic or bad for your liver. There is a lot more information that he has and it will be coming out in the near future.
Thanks for posting this @infraredz.
Aloha

Chris

 

[Bluesjunky]

My go to Kavas: RealKava's Vanuatu, Bula House Waka, and Kava By Rex's Tongan Pride (And I hope to continue seeing this list evolve). Anyway, in short, I gather these kavas are not Tudei? There's always been this underlying anxiety with my kava consumption, right or wrong, that maybe I'm doing some sort of harm to my liver, which is why I always limit my intake to 2-4 times a week and routinely take long breaks from the root. Oh, man, the danger of the internet--there are so many different sides to the story that it's often hard to know what to believe. But the the sense I get is that as long as you use the root and avoid the stems and peelings and also buy your kava from reputable sellers, you shouldn't be doing any real harm. Still, there is that perception of it being bad and I can't know for sure, so there's still that kernel of doubt.

 

[kavadude]

Bluesjunky, I believe those are all noble. But it can't hurt to check if you want, use the colorimetric test (it's in a pinned thread at the top of this forum). And you can get blood panels done as well.

I know what you've mean, but I've (and lots of other people) have had themselves tested and had absolutely no problems. I think water extractions of noble kava are about as benign as you can get.

 

[Bluesjunky]

Thanks for your reply! Yeah, that's what I figured. And I also have been tested many times and my liver and kidney panels are fine. I think you just have to listen to your body. When I drank, even if I'd only had a 3-4 beers, I would usually wake up feeling crappy. With kava, that's rare, unless I didn't properly strain the brew or else just got carried away. Anyway, I think my body has made it pretty clear that it doesn't mind kava so much, but it's not so crazy about alcohol. I just try to moderate as much as I can.

 

[infraredz]

I would refer you to:
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/wiki/kava-definitions/
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/wiki/kava-chemotypes/
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/threads/dr-vincent-lebot-the-kava-expert.2518/

Please keep in mind that the word noble does not refer only to Kava from Vanuatu, as we have as a community, agreed upon. Many kavas outside of Vanuatu are "noble" and Dr. Lebot has confirmed this:

there are many other good varieties outside vanuatu

The industry is working on a way to set up a standard for all Oceanic kava producing nations. You can find that here:
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/attachments/codex-madang-na12_kava_draft-pdf.64/
and for further research, please see:
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/wiki/kava-references/

and finally:
Dr. Vincent Lebot:

Water extraction, conducted since thousands of years in the Pacific, is the safest way to go

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22585547
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21112196
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21756963
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21377431 [This was published before the in vivo study showing FKB to be hepatotoxic]

Kava Historically Safe “As A Water Extract”

This from the World Health Organization (found in Codex linked above)
"The kava drink, has been consumed in Pacific Island Countries for centuries without any reported ill-effects on the liver [4], is made from a water extract of the root and/or rhizome of Piper methysticum. A recent WHO risk assessment concluded that “clinical trial of kava have not revealed hepatoxicity as a problem [5] suggesting that “water extracts are devoid of toxic effects” [6] and recommending that “products should be developed from water-based suspensions of kava” [7]. The safety of water based kava drinks is supported by long-term ethno-pharmacological observations [8]."

[4.] WHO (2007): Assessment of the risk of hepatotoxicity with kava products, p.4
[5.] WHO (2007): Assessment of the risk of hepatotoxicity with kava products, p. 62
[6.] WHO (2007): Assessment of the risk of hepatotoxicity with kava products, p. 59
[7.] WHO (2007): Assessment of the risk of hepatotoxicity with kava products, p. 62
[8]. Loew & Gaus (2002) in:WHO (2007):, p.11



Don't worry. That is not the intention of posting these things.
It is intended, pure and simple, to inform consumers as to the possible risks and nothing more. Right now, there is a possible risk with FKB, there is no denying that.
The problem is we don't have enough evidence to prove it's safe or dangerous in normal daily drinking amounts.
However, there is research being conducted as we speak by Dr. Xing as well as work he has already finished and is awaiting publication that will shed much more light on this subject.

Another quote from Dr. Lebot:

The current approach is to avoid taking risks as we suppose that the problems in Germany resulted from extracts obtained from two day kavas

We don't know at which rate, intake levels, ... etc... FKB can be dangerous, nobody knows, we do not have enough data

"Based on the conclusions of this study [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24423570], two days kava are very rich in F[lavo] K[avain]s compared to nobles... so why take the risk to expose ourselves to potential side effects.... especially as we know that they are not very pleasant to drink! the hangover, fatigue, and nausea are terrible"

However, and this is where I get flack, I feel that we, as consumers and as a community need think prophylactically. As the experts can attest to, once there is one claim made by someone (especially if it is a hepatic injury/disease), with the negative connotation that is so firmly in place, we could be looking at the shutdown of the kava industry in the states and EU.

The truth is, no one knows the comparative toxicity of tudei kava to substances like APAP (though I am talking with Dr. Xing).
What we do know is that aqueous extractions of noble kava is completely safe.

We shouldn't be thinking of how many cases of hepatic pathologies there are due to kava, but rather how we can prevent cases of hepatic pathologies due to kava.

I can definitively say that drinking "noble" kava, prepared with water is completely safe to drink every single day the rest of your life as well documented above and by the people of the Pacific that have been consuming kava for thousands of years.

 

[infraredz]

To address your post specifically....

My go to Kavas: RealKava's Vanuatu, Bula House Waka, and Kava By Rex's Tongan Pride (And I hope to continue seeing this list evolve). Anyway, in short, I gather these kavas are not Tudei?

Yes, these are considered Noble and suitable for everyday drinking.

There's always been this underlying anxiety with my kava consumption, right or wrong, that maybe I'm doing some sort of harm to my liver, which is why I always limit my intake to 2-4 times a week and routinely take long breaks from the root.

No need to worry at all, as you can see from the abundance of evidence proving kava is historically safe, using traditional preparation (with water) of noble (everyday drinking) kava.

Oh, man, the danger of the internet--there are so many different sides to the story that it's often hard to know what to believe.

I would say, "Oh man, the wonders of the internet- now I have access to all this information that I wouldn't have gotten before. Now I can research this for myself and refer to the experts when I have doubt. Now I can know of possible dangers before it's too late and be as cautious and safe as possible."

You should look at the evidence. The scientifically derived, peer reviewed evidence from experts in their respective field. Dr. Xing, and of course others, are in this category.

But the the sense I get is that as long as you use the root and avoid the stems and peelings and also buy your kava from reputable sellers, you shouldn't be doing any real harm. Still, there is that perception of it being bad and I can't know for sure, so there's still that kernel of doubt.

Yes, you should avoid products that sell any portion of the aerial (above ground) portions of the plant. Reputable sellers do not sell kava that contains aerial portions. Yes, you aren't doing yuorself any harm by purchasing kava from reputable vendors that sell kava that is suitable for everyday drinking.

The perception you have is unfounded in evidence but I know that gut feeling.

However, science trumps gut feelings, IMO. As long as you are not taking large amounts of, say acetaminophen, or drinking alcohol concurrently, you will be completely fine, as I documented above (and has the people all over the Pacific have demonstrated for thousands of years).

 

[Bluesjunky]

Appreciate your detailed reply! Think that should go a long way to getting me to just chill out and enjoy the sweet kava bliss