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CO2 Extraction Vs Solvent Extraction

The Kap'n

The Groggy Kaptain (40g)
KavaForums Founder
Ok, I have to ask it. What makes CO2 extractions safer than a solvent such as ethanol or methanol extraction? I was watching a video with supercritical CO2 and the video maker said they had to be careful with acrylic because liquid CO2 would actually dissolve it due to it's super solvent properties when supercritical. So yeah, what makes CO2 extraction desirable?

I'm actually betting there's a great answer that totally makes sense, but I find myself recommending CO2 extracted products while not understanding it....and I'm not "down with that".
 

Akava

Kava Enthusiast
Anything that isn't solvent, which includes aqueous and CO2 is cool, although there is no research on CO2 like there is on aqueous, the fact that it isn't solvent makes it ok.
 

KavaLot

Kava Enthusiast
Good question. I've wondered the same. I have done an acetone extraction that once dried mixed it with some honey. It was great, although I don't plan on doing it again anytime soon. I couldn't smell any acetone remaining but who knows if there was any residue in the mixture. I figured I've put a hell of a lot worse in my body so I ate it anyway. I'm still here, in the mean time, so it can't be that bad.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

sɥɐʞɐs

Avg. Dosage: 8 Tbsp. (58g)
Review Maestro
I don't really know either, I usually hear that ethanol type extractions might pull out more unwanted chemicals...but I've never researched it much since I never buy 'em. I do recall reading some study on co2 extraction of kavalactones and it said it only pulled out 7 of them. The 6 common ones plus a weird one like hydroxyyongonin or something. So if I read that right and it's true...maybe that's a perk, that it leaves most of the other stuff behind. From what little I know about co2 extraction, I think it also allows for extracting at a lower temp than some other methods thereby not ruining the plant material and allowing for a better extraction.
I'm sure there's someone around here who has some proper knowledge on this though...
 

Gourmet Hawaiian Kava

Kava Expert
Kava Vendor
Hi Kapm, any kava that is extracted with a solvent is subject to all kinds of things being extracted with the kavalactones, some have been targeted as bad because the solvents like alcohol seems to potentate the negative effect of these few substances that are in the kava, one being an alkaloid.
The CO2 when done by a person that has experience with kava and CO2 extractors in general will be able to manipulate the settings on the extractor, which is stainless steel and you can actually target the kavalactones over the other material in the kava, that is why the CO2 extracts are generally a very high percentage of kavalactones and the color is a bright yellow, that is the color of the kavalactones, remember the Moi pictures I recently posted, when I cut it open it is a nice yellow color, if it were a creamy white color then it would indicate less kavalactones than the yellow one. Also since CO2 is not a solvent, it only has solvent like properties when it is a fluid and it is under pressure in order to get the CO2 into the liquid state, when you release the pressure there is no residue, it turns back into a gas and recaptured for the next use. CO2 seems to be the safest way to extract kava but the traditional way seems to be the universally accepted safest way. :) Let me know if you have any other questions about this, I no longer have my CO2 extractor but I did have one and I used it a lot, I learned how to use it from another well known extractor technician, I still have a good amount of my kava extract but I don't use it, I wonder if I should sell it??? :sneaky:
Aloha nui loa.

Chris
 

CanAwa

1 kava 2 kava 3 kava COUCH
I wanted to try n-butane . Any take on safety Chris ? I'm not talking like isobutane used for camping stoves which is full of impurities and mercaptan . Or will it draw out the bad stuff too?
 

infraredz

BULA!
Just to clarify, water is probably one of the most common solvents that the majority of people use on a daily basis (sometimes referred to as the "universal solvent"). A solvent is simply something that soluble solutes are dissolved into. Water is unique in regards to kava in a number of ways, notably that it is the only solvent to extract any glutathione, at least compared to acetone, ethanol, hexane, chloroform, and methanol. In addition, it also extracts no Methysticin and somewhat lower amounts of flavokavains, although not nearly as dramatically as Methysiticin and Glutathione.

Furthermore, one of the primary aspects of what makes acetone and the like undesirable is the fact that they are very nonpolar and therefore extract nonpolar substances readily compared to, say water. CO2 is also a nonpolar substance, but due to supercritical extraction methods, which I'm not familiar with, their could be a lot of variance from organic nonpolar solvents like acetone. The way I understand supercritical CO2 extraction, CO2 is acting as the solvent...

I have access to lots of data regarding the efficacy of extracting over 7 dozen various compounds in kava rhizome, but under copyright laws I can't publish the tables in a public environment. That being said, I can give some more information regarding the efficacy of various solvents at extracting kavalactones, flavokvains, and glutathione.

The total phenolics varied considerably among the solvents tested. Chloroform showed the maximum phenolic content (63.1 mg GAE/g extract), followed by the acetone extract (43.0 mg), water, methanol/ethanol and lastly, hexane. The amount of total phenolics in the water extract was markedly reduced relative with that of the acetone extract. However,Interestingly, methanol, ethanol and hexane extracts yielded a minimum of total phenolics (2.9, 2.9, and 2.2 mg, respectively). In summary, the regarding maximum yield by a given solvent, the list in order of decreasing efficacy was chloroform< acetone< water< methanol/ethanol<hexane extracts.

That being said, water extracts 0.0 mg/g of Methysticin (found in aerial portions of plant) whereas every other solvent tested (other than ethanol and methanol) extracts significant quantities of Methysticin. There are also interesting tidbits regarding specific kavalactones' ability to be extracted in different solvents.

Then of course, there are the flavokavains... but I hear that's a dead horse so I won't bring those up.

[http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18404321]
Xuan, Tran Dang, Masakazu Fukuta, Ao Chang Wei, Abdelnaser Abdelghany Elzaawely, Tran Dang Khanh, and Shinkichi Tawata.
"Efficacy of Extracting Solvents to Chemical Components of Kava (Piper Methysticum) Roots."
Journal of Natural Medicines 62.2 (2008): 188-94. Print.
 
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CanAwa

1 kava 2 kava 3 kava COUCH
When extracting from other plants common practice used to be using an alcohol solvent. Usually the plant soaked in the solution and was strained and boiled off . The result was a dark green oil and the reason being that the alcohol also extracted chlorophyll from the leaves . With butane extraction the oil became almost clear or yellow like honey and as far as I understand it was because the butane is only passing through the plant matter quick enough to draw out the active chemicle that we want . I say this because if the butane is safe clean pure butane (99.95%) then I don't see what the difference would be using the way you would co2.
 
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Paradise Kava

Honolulu, HI
Kava Vendor
I could not have put it better than Chris. It's important to have only stainless steel parts in contact with the raw material and thru the entire extraction process Kamp.
Also, some good info there infraredz, nothing beats an aqueous extraction, period.

I can say that a controlled CO2 extraction (where temp and pressure are controlled according to the chemotype of extract which is desired in the end) is the finest way to extract a plant (rhizome) matter such as kava.

However, just like other botanicals, I am starting to believe that Kava too can be successful in a tincture format IF the best quality kava root is used and in highly concentrated amounts per gallon of spirit. Most kava tinctures are merely a shot of mouth numbing alcohol, and not chock full of kavalactones.

We hope to do more testing in the future (with the American Kava Association) , but my "guess" is that very small amounts of flav B and alkaloids are being consumed here by humans; not the numbers shown on smaller mammals to demonstrate toxicity.

AG
 
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endwatcher

Is there death before life?
So I can understand this clearly.

You can variant factors to the C02 extraction, to extract just certain Kavalactones?
If so, is there a way to extract, seperate the main Kavalactones?
That way if I am feeling like I want a little Kavain with breakfast, I can get it without the sedation of some of the others?

Not that I would just take 1 at a time, I feel Kava was made with its profile to be consumed fully.
 

Tyler

Kava Vendor
re: [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18404321]

This was an interesting paper. However, I see a few issues with the data. I cannot see how the researchers arrived at a near 0% extraction of Methysticin with ethanol as the solvent, when we know through analytical testing that ethanol-based extracts contain significant amounts of this lactone. This study also seemed to indicate that water extracted 5 times more of the 7 major kavalactones than ethanol...when we know for a fact that ethanol is far superior in extracting lactones. ??? It also showed that ethanol extracted 0 Flavokavains..... ??? I'm at a total loss as to how they arrived at these conclusions.

Yes by altering temperature and pressure you can isolate lactones. You can even turn undesirable chemotype material into excellent extract. Patents restrict this activity however.

C02 is one of the best methods I know of for full spectrum extraction of lactones.
 
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