Best bang for your buck?
- Thread starter Skywalker
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kavadude
❦ॐ tanuki tamer
For pure $/krunk ratio? BKH Koniak. I don't think you can do any better. But it is a tudei-ish kava so it depends on how you feel about that.
My go-to kava is BKH Boroguru. It's risen in price a little, but it's still my favorite. I always have some on hand no matter what else I am trying out.
Wakacon has excellent pricing at $25-27/lb and free shipping. I wasn't blown away by their fiji waka, but it's okay and might be worth a shot. I have some of their Vanuatu in the mail and it sounds pretty promising.
My go-to kava is BKH Boroguru. It's risen in price a little, but it's still my favorite. I always have some on hand no matter what else I am trying out.
Wakacon has excellent pricing at $25-27/lb and free shipping. I wasn't blown away by their fiji waka, but it's okay and might be worth a shot. I have some of their Vanuatu in the mail and it sounds pretty promising.
infraredz
BULA!
I still think Boroguru is the best value.
Koniak will give you the biggest effect per dollar, but like kavadude, it depends on how you feel about tudei kava. I personally find the risks to lower the value that it might have because of the cost of apoptosis.
How do you guys compare the Boroguru kavas to something like Stone or Wow?
infraredz
BULA!
Boroguru seems identical to Stone in terms of effect but it's just slightly less potent. Like kavadude said, the difference in price makes up for it by far though (Stone "must have diamond dust in it" for the price they sell it at as Kapm says).
Stone is really the only kava which I really dislike the taste of too.
Skywalker
Kava Enthusiast
This Tudei...it seems loosely defined in Kava Culture. They don't appear different, but from what I understand Tudei will knock you out and has a closer link to side effects. I'm not sure, maybe I should read more forums. Apotosis sounds baaaad.
Wakacon will only ship- wait for it- 44 pounds ! to me because I live in Canada (BC)
Boroguru it is!
Wakacon will only ship- wait for it- 44 pounds ! to me because I live in Canada (BC)
Boroguru it is!
infraredz
BULA!
It's not very loose now (as more and more research is conducted on kava), and has a long-standing history with natives for being a kava that is unsafe for daily drinking. In fact, in Vanuatu, tudei kava is banned from exportation.
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/threads/lebot-interview-on-tudei-hepatotoxicity.1531/
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/thr...ble-tudei-and-wichmanii-strains-for-fkb.1573/
Piper Methysticum
Let Kava Take The Wheel
Just reaffirming, Boroguru is my pick, it's the root I purchase the most and it always delivers.
Keep in mind y'all that Melo Melo, Borogu, and Boroguru are all $54/lb. when you order by the kg, and the're all awesome. 1 kg. is 10% more than 2 lbs. Sometimes I feel like we should start selling by the lb. because people tend to forget that 1 kg. isn't just 2 lbs.
And actually, Ni-Van people didn't drink kava that they considered "tudei" because they simply didn't like the effects, not because they didn't think it was safe. It's not like they had the ability to test for levels of FKB when the term first started being used. It is banned from exportation for the same reason. Keep in mind that the only exportable Vanuatu kavas are what they deem "noble", of which there are only a handful. The 70 or so that aren't legally exported ARE NOT all "tudei". Therefore, it's not the "tudei" classification that restricts exportation, it's the "noble" classification that allows it.
The definition for tudei actually is somewhat loose, especially outside of Vanuatu. Some kava drinkers on this site would call Koniak a tudei because of the slightly loopy feeling they've had the morning after a session with it. Others don't have the same experience so they don't call it a tudei. In the region where it is grown in PNG, people safely enjoy it as an everyday kava and call it Koniak (which is akin to Hawaiians calling kava "awa"). The word tudei is never used by them which is why I'm hesitant to label it that myself, as I think we all should be. That being said, I agree that if you're looking for bang for you buck potency wise, Koniak can't be beat.
And actually, Ni-Van people didn't drink kava that they considered "tudei" because they simply didn't like the effects, not because they didn't think it was safe. It's not like they had the ability to test for levels of FKB when the term first started being used. It is banned from exportation for the same reason. Keep in mind that the only exportable Vanuatu kavas are what they deem "noble", of which there are only a handful. The 70 or so that aren't legally exported ARE NOT all "tudei". Therefore, it's not the "tudei" classification that restricts exportation, it's the "noble" classification that allows it.
The definition for tudei actually is somewhat loose, especially outside of Vanuatu. Some kava drinkers on this site would call Koniak a tudei because of the slightly loopy feeling they've had the morning after a session with it. Others don't have the same experience so they don't call it a tudei. In the region where it is grown in PNG, people safely enjoy it as an everyday kava and call it Koniak (which is akin to Hawaiians calling kava "awa"). The word tudei is never used by them which is why I'm hesitant to label it that myself, as I think we all should be. That being said, I agree that if you're looking for bang for you buck potency wise, Koniak can't be beat.
infraredz
BULA!
I believe that with the lack of substantive documentation for the centuries of kava consumption, we can't definitively say that they chose not to drink it because they didn't like the feeling. I believe in centuries of experimentation and kava usage would show the Ni-Vanuatu which kavas do what (including possible negative side-effects). While they might not have known what FKB was, that doesn't mean that they didn't start to notice certain undesirable health effects and therefore put it in a different class. Of course this is purely conjecture, which leads me to...
The guy (well, one of three) who literally wrote the book on kava, Dr. Vincent Lebot who is a geneticist, would be the best person to classify classes of kava. In the Codex Alimentarius Commission E, there is a list of known, safe kava and there is a proposal to develop a codex standard for kava that will apply to all kava, regardless of the origin as once can see.
Regardless of semantics, as I said before, quantitative research is starting to include kava and the Department of Agriculture has more than enough resources to ensure the kava exported from Vanuautu is safe. I don't believe that all non-exportable kavas are tudei (as some are too "weak", young, etc), but I do believe that if any country is going to be thorough with kava, it is Vanuatu and not PNG which is nowhere close to Vanautu when in regards to legal statutes regarding kava, scientific research and resources. Therefore, if they ban a kava from export, there is good reason. PNG has no regulatory framework for kava (as far as I know) and not to be cynical, but exportation is money.
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Qualitative tests are explained by the Dr. Lebot here and both Kapm and I conducted our own qualitative colorimetric tests on various samples.
Mine:
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/thr...qualitative-type-test-in-lab.1543/#post-15436
After e-mailing the above to Dr. Lebot, he confirmed that the amber color of the "Koniak" sample was indeed tudei.
_____________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: The Koniak that was tested in the following attachment was not confirmed to be the same Koniak that Bula Kava House sells.
It can be called "ISA" since that is a "native" and commonly used word in PNG, but I think it's a bit farfetched to argue that ISA, tudei and tuday are different other than the etymology.
The guy (well, one of three) who literally wrote the book on kava, Dr. Vincent Lebot who is a geneticist, would be the best person to classify classes of kava. In the Codex Alimentarius Commission E, there is a list of known, safe kava and there is a proposal to develop a codex standard for kava that will apply to all kava, regardless of the origin as once can see.
Regardless of semantics, as I said before, quantitative research is starting to include kava and the Department of Agriculture has more than enough resources to ensure the kava exported from Vanuautu is safe. I don't believe that all non-exportable kavas are tudei (as some are too "weak", young, etc), but I do believe that if any country is going to be thorough with kava, it is Vanuatu and not PNG which is nowhere close to Vanautu when in regards to legal statutes regarding kava, scientific research and resources. Therefore, if they ban a kava from export, there is good reason. PNG has no regulatory framework for kava (as far as I know) and not to be cynical, but exportation is money.
_____________________________________________________________________
Qualitative tests are explained by the Dr. Lebot here and both Kapm and I conducted our own qualitative colorimetric tests on various samples.
Mine:
http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/thr...qualitative-type-test-in-lab.1543/#post-15436
After e-mailing the above to Dr. Lebot, he confirmed that the amber color of the "Koniak" sample was indeed tudei.
_____________________________________________________________________
Disclaimer: The Koniak that was tested in the following attachment was not confirmed to be the same Koniak that Bula Kava House sells.
It can be called "ISA" since that is a "native" and commonly used word in PNG, but I think it's a bit farfetched to argue that ISA, tudei and tuday are different other than the etymology.
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Anecdotally, we can say the reason they didn't drink it regularly was because the effects were too strong. I was told as much by kava farmers there. Plus, in Lebot's book he writes as much.
The "Koniak" tested in the attachment was NOT claimed to be what we sell either. They call all kava Koniak sometimes in PNG, it's a very general term for piper methysticum. They have a few varieties there so it could be any of those.
The "Koniak" tested in the attachment was NOT claimed to be what we sell either. They call all kava Koniak sometimes in PNG, it's a very general term for piper methysticum. They have a few varieties there so it could be any of those.
Bulakavahouse.com had lots of samples! 
Well we're actually sold out at the moment but more is on the way. And I actually think someone did a test, a rudimentary version similar to what Lebot explained that showed a darker colored solvent with my Koniak that would indicate it has at least some similar properties to a tudei kava. Which is totally fine with me. As far as all the research I've done has told me, drinking traditionally prepared kava of ANY kind had never caused serious health problems.
Well we're actually sold out at the moment but more is on the way. And I actually think someone did a test, a rudimentary version similar to what Lebot explained that showed a darker colored solvent with my Koniak that would indicate it has at least some similar properties to a tudei kava. Which is totally fine with me. As far as all the research I've done has told me, drinking traditionally prepared kava of ANY kind had never caused serious health problems.
kavadude
❦ॐ tanuki tamer
Given koniaks extreme effect profile and potency, I don't think it is disingenuous to separate it from kavas known as "noble." It's unfortunate we don't have great objective terms and tests to describe the difference (that's why I call it "tudei-ish") and I don't think it is likely to damage the liver. I just want people who are buying to be aware of the difference.
Let's instead separate Koniak from "daily drinking kavas", not "noble", which I'm agreeable to. For me personally. unless it is very small amounts, Koniak is too strong to enjoy daily. My problem with calling any kava that is not "tudei" "noble" is two-fold. First, it implies that there are only two classifications, which is absolutely untrue, even in Vanuatu. Second, the only kava that will ever be described by the people who grow it is as "noble" are a handful of strains from Vanuatu. As the kava expert Ed Johnston wrote on another post on this site: "As for the "Noble-Kava/Flavokawain Debates" I am not convinced that there is anything what-so-ever problematic about Flavokawains
(Unless they have gone through solvent extraction!) ;
There is plenty of research showing flavokawains are good blood thinners and may even be what is helping suppress cancer tumors.
The label- Noble Kavas can be misleading and I agree with Vincent when he says-- other areas of the Pacific have traditionally consumed kavas which are equal to Nobles, just not called Nobles.
I just don't want people to think that the only good kavas have to be legally, Noble Kavas from Vanuatu.
That would be very disrespectful to the multitude of indigenous peoples who (outside of Vanuatu) have their own cultivars they have consumed for a thousand years or more.
--Ed"
yepimonfire
Kava Enthusiast
I don't get why people keep claiming koniak is a tudei, first off, I have never noticed two days of effects from it or anything more substantial then things like boroguru and stone, secondly, IIRC, tudei kavas contain hardly any kavain, it's apparent there is kavain to an extent due to the initial heady effect and mouth numbing.
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Deleted User01
This whole Tudie or not Tudie has been somewhat overblown. Koniak does have residual effects in the morning because it is potent. So I mix it with Boroguru and I drink it as the LAST CUP in my session after some Kavain type kavas. I subscribe to the motto, "Moderation in Everything". So everybody use their commonsense and drink a reasonable amount of Koniak and not everyday. You know you overdid it when you start start walking in a zig zag pattern.
been somewhat overblown. Koniak does have residual effects in the morning because it is potent. So I mix it with Boroguru and I drink it as the LAST CUP in my session after some Kavain type kavas. I subscribe to the motto, "Moderation in Everything". So everybody use their commonsense and drink a reasonable amount of Koniak and not everyday. You know you overdid it when you start start walking in a zig zag pattern.
yepimonfire
Kava Enthusiast
Residual effects in the morning does not make it tudei, residual effects last the entire next day to the point you remain krunk does. many of the "heavy handed" kavalactones have half lives of 9 hours, so the amount of kavalactones in your body after consuming a huge amount in koniak is probably still active enough to feel in the morning. FKB has a substantially longer half life which is why it's tudei in the first place. Comparing it to melo melo isn't an indication it has more kavalactones than any kava, try throwing stone or boroguru in there and they'd probably be close.