How Safe Is Your Kava

[HeadHodge]

I published a FAQ in the 'Getting Started' section of the site, with the same name as this thread.

Published version posted here: http://www.kavaforums.com/forum/brdc-document/

This thread is for any desired discussion about it.

 

[Steve Mariotti]

I hope you're not one of those anti-masturbator types. I've always wanted to be a master debater.

Oh no, I wouldn't be against my favorite hobby now would I?

So now that you've replied to me, I feel compelled to make contribution to the thread.

Question: Is my kava SAFE to drink?
Answer: Testing will confirm this.

Question: What testing?
Answer: There are two tests. The acetonic test and HPLC/Chromatograph testing.

Question: What does the acetonic test tell you?
Answer: It can tell you whether the kava is Noble (fit for daily drinking) or tudei (not.)

Question: What does the HPLC test tell you?
Answer: It tells you the kavalactone composition of the kava, nobility, as well as whether it's SAFE (all roots or adulterated with aerial parts of the plant.)

Question: Is my kava SAFE TO DRINK, THOUGH?
Answer: If HPLC testing determines that it's non-tudei and non-adulterated and there's are no aerial plant matter in it, then YES! DRINK UP!

Question: What if the acetone test says it's Noble?
Answer: It still may have aerial parts and needs HPLC testing to confirm.

Question: What if the acetone test says it's not Noble?
Answer: It's tudei or adulterated with tudei. A large international consensus among scientists and kava experts recommends against drinking tudei kava.

Question: Don't some people drink tudei and have no ill effects?
Answer: Yes. And some parents don't vaccinate their children and their children don't die of whooping cough.

Question: A semi-famous video blogger likes tudei and seemed quite happy in his video, should I buy some and drink it too?
Answer: You can do whatever you want, but be advised that tudei drinking is recommended against by kava experts and Pacific islanders do not typically drink it very much if at all.

Question: What's the best way to try kava and get the experience that the Pacific Islanders have enjoyed for literally millenia?
Answer: Daily drinking or "Noble" kava is your best bet. Many vendors sell Noble kava. Buying noble gets you the closest thing to traditional daily drinking Pacific Islands kava. Check for test results proving nobility, as shady resellers often rebadge non-Noble or adulterated kava as "noble" to sell it. Know what you're drinking!

There. Done. Is that cool? Can we lock the thread now?

 

[TheKavaSociety]

Iodine and rubbing alcohol are also ussd in medicine and yet you wouldnt drink them. Same for kava leaves in polynesian medicine. They were considered good for external use. I ve looked at the literature and talked to islanders. Nobody ever consumes any of the aerial parts. And we know for a fact that pipermethystine is a poison. But yea, we dont know how much of it you would need to eat to die. Same applies to potato leaves. We just know there are hardly any benefits from consuming them and there is a potential risk of getting poisoned.

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Going further, there are tubers like cassava (Manihot esculenta) that contain high amounts of cyanide but are safe to eat when cooked. The point being that behavior has a lot to do with the safety or danger of a plant. Even parts of the maize plant can harm you. To some extent, it can be said that the human species does a pretty good job of avoiding the bad parts of plants.

 

[JonT]

Iodine and rubbing alcohol are also ussd in medicine and yet you wouldnt drink them. Same for kava leaves in polynesian medicine. They were considered good for external use. I ve looked at the literature and talked to islanders. Nobody ever consumes any of the aerial parts. And we know for a fact that pipermethystine is a poison. But yea, we dont know how much of it you would need to eat to die. Same applies to potato leaves. We just know there are hardly any benefits from consuming them and there is a potential risk of getting poisoned.

Tomatoes are another one that has poisonous leaves.
A story I heard is that when tomatoes first came to Europe, people were afraid to eat them because they resembled nightshade (same family apparently). It was only desperately poor people that ate the fruit, and the culture spread from there. It sounds more like an urban myth but it's quite believable...

 

[kasa_balavu]

Going further, there are tubers like cassava (Manihot esculenta) that contain high amounts of cyanide but are safe to eat when cooked. The point being that behavior has a lot to do with the safety or danger of a plant. Even parts of the maize plant can harm you. To some extent, it can be said that the human species does a pretty good job of avoiding the bad parts of plants.

Yup. I wonder how many people have gotten sick from ignoring tradition. I'm sure some people thought they were smart and ate tomato leaves and green potatoes. I've seen fools (friends of mine) eat raw cassava. To some extent, it can be said that the human species does a pretty good job of avoiding the bad parts of plants and bad plants in general. But there are always people who ignore conventional wisdom and in modern times, scientific consensus.

 

[HeadHodge]

I'm feeling the juice flowing now. Thanks!!!

 

[Kojo Douglas]

Yup. I wonder how many people have gotten sick from ignoring tradition. I'm sure some people thought they were smart and ate tomato leaves and green potatoes. I've seen fools (friends of mine) eat raw cassava. To some extent, it can be said that the human species does a pretty good job of avoiding the bad parts of plants and bad plants in general. But there are always people who ignore conventional wisdom and in modern times, scientific consensus.

Climate change deniers? Smokers? People who drive motorcycles without helmets?

 

[verticity]

...Question: What does the acetonic test tell you?
Answer: It can tell you whether the kava is Noble (fit for daily drinking) or tudei (not.)

Question: What does the HPLC test tell you?
Answer: It tells you the kavalactone composition of the kava, nobility, as well as whether it's SAFE (all roots or adulterated with aerial parts of the plant.)

Small correction: the HPLC test does not detect chlorophyll, and thus does not detect adulteration with aerial parts. The visible spectrum of the acetone extract does detect that. There is almost no overlap between the absorbance peaks that cause the yellow or orange coloration, and the chlorophyll peak, so it is easy to see if there is chlorophyll from the visible spectrum alone. Detection of chlorophyll is a "side effect" of doing the acetone test, if you will.

Fap fap fap fap

 

[Steve Mariotti]

Small correction: the HPLC test does not detect chlorophyll, and thus does not detect adulteration with aerial parts. The visible spectrum of the acetone extract does detect that.

Thanks for the correction!

There is almost no overlap between the absorbance peaks that cause the yellow or orange coloration, and the chlorophyll peak, so it is easy to see if there is chlorophyll from the visible spectrum alone. Detection of chlorophyll is a "side effect" of doing the acetone test, if you will.

That's cool. I didn't realize. I knew it was detected as a peak at a much lower color wavelength, but I guess not clear on where that peak came from.

The CIE graph would be good for displaying chlorophyll then since it devotes a proportionally too large area to the green area of the spectrum.

[fapping redacted]

Also: edited the original post for accuracy. Thanks @verticity.

 

[verticity]

Thanks for the correction!


That's cool. I didn't realize. I knew it was detected as a peak at a much lower color wavelength, but I guess not clear on where that peak came from.

The CIE graph would be good for displaying chlorophyll then since it devotes a proportionally too large area to the green area of the spectrum.

[fapping redacted]

It's easiest to see on the absorbance spectrum (not the transmittance one that we deal with for the color thingy) Chlorophyll has a peak at approx 650 nm, whereas the peak causing the usual yellow or orange coloration is between 400 and 500 nm. Here is an example:
http://kavaforums.com/forum/threads/hkc-hiwa.5975/

 

[verticity]

In the transmittance spectrum, the peak becomes a dip.

 

[Steve Mariotti]

In the transmittance spectrum, the peak becomes a dip.

Makes sense. It's absorbance/transmittance are inverse.

Could you re-read that up there and make sure nothing sticks in your ear?

 

[verticity]

Question: What if the acetone test says it's Noble?
Answer: It still may have aerial parts and needs color testing to confirm.

@Steve Mariotti - this is the only part that sticks in my crotch a little. I'm not sure what the effect of chlorophyll on dominant wavelength would be, probably knock it way out of range. The order you should do things in is: (1) Look at the whole visible spectrum. If you see a big chlorophyll peak, you might be able to qualitatively look at the spectrum and see if it is two-day also, but the dominant WL calculation probably wouldn't work very well. (2) If there is no--or an acceptably small amount--of chlorophyll, then find the dominant wavelength to assess nobility (i.e. "do the acetone test")

 

[kavayo]

Can you buy HPLC kits somewhere?

 

[verticity]

Can you buy HPLC kits somewhere?

A regular HPLC is about 5,000-20,000 dollars. I think @Deleted User got a deal on a used one. (If you want HPLC-MS which is HPLC with a mass spectrometer detector you're looking at $50,000-100,000.) There are no kits that I know of.

Having said that, HPLC is a fancy kind of chromatography, the least fancy being thin-layer (TLC) or paper chromatography. They are used mainly as educational tools, but also for some qualitative tests. You probably could do TLC (not HPTLC) on kava samples with supplies costing less than $25. Of course the result would be no where near the precision that you get from an HPLC.

Thin layer chromatography example.

 

[verticity]

...TLC is usable but can only give qualitative results, meaning you can tell a molecule is present but not measure the quantity. Quantitative thin layer analysis requires HPTLC (high performance thin layer chromatography), and an entry level system capable of using Dr. Lebot's method (the only method in existence for kava) costs $57,000....

Absolutely true, TLC is strictly qualitative; but I mentioned it because it might be something fun for a home experimenter to play around with. In particular it would be interesting to see if TLC could distinguish noble from two day.

 

[HeadHodge]

Absolutely true, TLC is strictly qualitative; but I mentioned it because it might be something fun for a home experimenter to play around with. In particular it would be interesting to see if TLC could distinguish noble from two day.

(T)ender (L)oving (C)are is also good for a lot of other things too.

 

[Unda Kava]

Oh no, I wouldn't be against my favorite hobby now would I?

So now that you've replied to me, I feel compelled to make contribution to the thread.

Question: Is my kava SAFE to drink?
Answer: Testing will confirm this.

Question: What testing?
Answer: There are two tests. The acetonic test and HPLC/Chromatograph testing.

Question: What does the acetonic test tell you?
Answer: It can tell you whether the kava is Noble (fit for daily drinking) or tudei (not.)

Question: What does the HPLC test tell you?
Answer: It tells you the kavalactone composition of the kava, nobility, as well as whether it's SAFE (all roots or adulterated with aerial parts of the plant.)

Question: Is my kava SAFE TO DRINK, THOUGH?
Answer: If HPLC testing determines that it's non-tudei and non-adulterated and there's are no aerial plant matter in it, then YES! DRINK UP!

Question: What if the acetone test says it's Noble?
Answer: It still may have aerial parts and needs HPLC testing to confirm.

Question: What if the acetone test says it's not Noble?
Answer: It's tudei or adulterated with tudei. A large international consensus among scientists and kava experts recommends against drinking tudei kava.

Question: Don't some people drink tudei and have no ill effects?
Answer: Yes. And some parents don't vaccinate their children and their children don't die of whooping cough.

Question: A semi-famous video blogger likes tudei and seemed quite happy in his video, should I buy some and drink it too?
Answer: You can do whatever you want, but be advised that tudei drinking is recommended against by kava experts and Pacific islanders do not typically drink it very much if at all.

Question: What's the best way to try kava and get the experience that the Pacific Islanders have enjoyed for literally millenia?
Answer: Daily drinking or "Noble" kava is your best bet. Many vendors sell Noble kava. Buying noble gets you the closest thing to traditional daily drinking Pacific Islands kava. Check for test results proving nobility, as shady resellers often rebadge non-Noble or adulterated kava as "noble" to sell it. Know what you're drinking!

There. Done. Is that cool? Can we lock the thread now?

I tested my kava at home and found it to be noble, but I want a "certified" test of my kava. Where do I send it? Who can I contact? Thanks for the help.

 

[verticity]

I tested my kava at home and found it to be noble, but I want a "certified" test of my kava. Where do I send it? Who can I contact? Thanks for the help.

PM @Deleted User for the True Kava lab address.