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verticity
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Don't know, it could be a rare adverse reaction, or it could be a case of correlation vs. causation, i.e., kava being blamed for something else that caused it. Or it could be somewhere in the middle, maybe kava exacerbated some existing condition the guy had. But when I read stuff like this:
You can bet, though, that if the patient were a regular user of an approved pharmaceutical, say ibuprofen, to take a random example, it would not warrant a special case report about the demon NSAID.
= three different highly speculative attempts to explain what happened, it leads me to believe they really have no effing idea what caused the guy's illness.
You can bet, though, that if the patient were a regular user of an approved pharmaceutical, say ibuprofen, to take a random example, it would not warrant a special case report about the demon NSAID.
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Rookietwoshoes
The creatine levels were through the roof though. It would be interesting to measure levels before and after ingestion.
verticity
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Indeed it would be very interesting, wish there were more studies of the actual effects of kava on humans.
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Rookietwoshoes
If kava is a diuretic then anyone with underlying kidney problems wouldn't benefit from drinking it. If it also increases creatine levels then it's a double whammy .I suppose this really emphasizes the fact that it's critical that one remain hydrated, particularly for those drinkers who may have undiagnosed kidney disease.
I see your point that they are pointing fingers at all herbal supplements. Unfortunately, all they have to go on is the patient's admission to ingesting twice the kava he was a customed to taking. Could there be a physiological impact to overdoing it?
I see your point that they are pointing fingers at all herbal supplements. Unfortunately, all they have to go on is the patient's admission to ingesting twice the kava he was a customed to taking. Could there be a physiological impact to overdoing it?
verticity
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I agree the article does not prove causality, and does belong to the genre of sensationalist but insubstantial case reports about herbal remedies.
But, kava is a drug, as @Rookietwoshoes pointed out it's a diuretic among other things, which could have some effect on the kidneys. We simply don't have enough hard science on human subjects to make statements like that.
This calls for an army.. of human lab rats.
Edit: I should add, we actually do have evidence about the health effects of kava, but it is negative evidence, i.e. the absence of any epidemic of kava drinkers dropping dead from kidney failure in any significant numbers-- an experiment that has been ongoing for 3000 years.
But, kava is a drug, as @Rookietwoshoes pointed out it's a diuretic among other things, which could have some effect on the kidneys. We simply don't have enough hard science on human subjects to make statements like that.
This calls for an army.. of human lab rats.
Edit: I should add, we actually do have evidence about the health effects of kava, but it is negative evidence, i.e. the absence of any epidemic of kava drinkers dropping dead from kidney failure in any significant numbers-- an experiment that has been ongoing for 3000 years.
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Rookietwoshoes
i don't think that a hamburger is going to raise creatine to those crazy levels.
It takes a lot of overexertion to induce rhab. All he did was ride a bike. Can kava cause that much muscle fatigue that moderate activity amounts to a lot ? That sounds like such a stretch. I remember a a few articles coming out about rhabdomyolisis after the crossfit gyms started sprouting up and people were ending up in the hospital as a result of overdoing it.
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Rookietwoshoes
@verticity - True. But maybe the American ideology of cumulative hyper dosing and overdoing it differs from that of the Islanders . I don't know. I guess the point is to 'stay hydrated '
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kavadude
❦ॐ tanuki tamer
I've discussed this one before, but people have given themselves rhabdomyolysis through exercise alone. Google "crossfit rhabdo" for some fun afternoon reading. Adding a diuretic into the mix is inadvisable and I would not recommend kava before exercise, but I don't think there is enough here to implicate kava in any kind of way.
Prince Philip
Duke of Edinborogu
I think we've discussed the tea in the past. In additional to kava, it has carob, sarsaparilla, cinnamon, ginger, cardamom and stevia. That's assuming the brand is Yogi. If they're referring to what we squeeze as "tea," then they're using the term in a somewhat imprecise way considering kava teas exist.
I also don't think it's a quote-mine to say, "only one other case of myoglobinuria (muscle damage) has been reported. This is not to say it never happens, but we were fortunate to recognize it because it is so rare.”
All in all, I'd have to agree with @kavadude on this one - kava is used for post-exercise recovery, not pre-exercise whateverness.
I also don't think it's a quote-mine to say, "only one other case of myoglobinuria (muscle damage) has been reported. This is not to say it never happens, but we were fortunate to recognize it because it is so rare.”
All in all, I'd have to agree with @kavadude on this one - kava is used for post-exercise recovery, not pre-exercise whateverness.
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Rookietwoshoes
The point is education . The guy that riding the bike might not have known not to exercise after kava. Even Chris has admitted to going through several rounds of kidney stones as a result of drinking kava and not supplementing with additional water intake.
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