Decisions, Decisions

[Ceraton]

Hey guys,

Fellow Kava drinker Eric, here. I am out of my Koniak blend.

I'm getting payed Friday so I will have enough cash to buy whatever you guys suggest. Suggest anything, say anything, or tell me that x has a deal for y or y gives z effects that will make me feel z. Because right now, I am really in the mood for getting good kava. I feel like buying everything...with the limited amount of cash I have right now.

I have a couple of side questions for recreational use.

1. Which kava personally gives you strong anti-anxiety effects?
2. Which kava personally gives you strong heady effects?
3. Which kava personally gives you strong numbing effects?
4. Which kava personally gives you strong Euphoric effects?
5. Which kava personally gives you the munchies?
6. Which kava personally is easier to swallow in terms of taste, bitterness, or sweetness? (I don't mind the taste...kind of)
7. Which kava personally gives you less of a nausea effect?

I understand that certain kavas affect certain people in different ways so that some effects may be lighter or stronger for certain individuals.

I don't know the rules of kava forum and hope that this doesn't break any rules for posting, because I just really want to find any kind of kava to experiment with.

From what I read, every different brand of kava is a different experience.

I will be glad to hear what two-cents you guys have to throw in.

Cheers!

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

generally, all kavas reduce anxiety. some feel heavily sedating varieties are better, others feel heady varieties are...
generally, any kava with a high Kavain content and high overall kavalactone content will produce the headiest effects...
generally, all kavas are numbing...some people feel it more than others. I hardly feel it. Others say their face goes numb.
generally, euphoric kavas are the same as heady kavas. (see #2)
generally, kava gives you the opposite of the munchies. exceptions for some people. light heady kavas allow for more eating.
generally, all kavas taste like kava. The most palatable tend to be the headiest ones than aren't high in double-bonded lactones.
generally, all kavas can lead to nausea, but like many of the other answers, light heady kavas with low concentrations of double-bonded kavalactones are the least nauseating.

Every kava can be a different experience for many reasons. Such as varying chemotypes, varying overall kavalactone percentage, personal body chemistry, personal expectations, set and setting, stomach contents...
But in general they all fall within a sliding scale. On one end you have super heavy, groggy, sedating kavas...on the other end you have super light, clean heady kavas...most fall in between with different ratios of those two aspects. but they all still feel like kava.
Do this, get familiar with Stone, Hiwa, Koniak, Boroguru, or even Tudei if you wanan get a clear idea of the heavier side. Then get familiar with Mo'i, Honokane 'Iki and Kavaboy's Hinehina if you wanna understand lighter headier side.
Then get a couple of my favs, Mahakea (GHK) & Borongoru (KWK) to know good balanced kava.

 

[Ceraton]

Well, I was just trying to sort out different kavas that produce different effects. I remember somewhere in the forums a guy got the munchies on one brand because the kava was high in yangonin. I just want to know what variety I am diving into when picking out different kava.

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

Hey guys,
I'm getting payed Friday so I will have enough cash to buy whatever you guys suggest. Suggest anything, say anything, or tell me that x has a deal for y or y gives z effects that will make me feel z. Because right now, I am really in the mood for getting good kava.

Well I guess I could be considered "X" so if you want good kava i will give you a 10% discount on anything you buy from my website and there is no minimum to buy, and I will include some free samples too. Let me know if you have any questions, aloha.

Chris

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

Well, I was just trying to sort out different kavas that produce different effects. I remember somewhere in the forums a guy got the munchies on one brand because the kava was high in yangonin. I just want to know what variety I am diving into when picking out different kava.

If you want prominent munchies, you might prefer ɐuɐnɾᴉɹɐɯ to kava. Yangonin does have some effect on a cannabinoid receptor, but nothing drastic. Like I mentioned, chemotypes with low concentrations of double-bonded lactones are your best bet for eating after kava. Those chemotypes are usually "463xxx". # 3 is yangonin, you're not likely to find it in higher proportions in any commonly available kava. Just because one dude had munchies and assumed it to be related to Yangonin doesn't make it a fact and doesn't mean you'll have the same response.
If you're the same guy who recently talked about grubbing down food after a night chugging Stone kava, I don't think you'll have a problem eating after any kava.

If you wanna start having an idea of what a kava will be like before you buy it, start learning about chemotypes and kavalactones. I've found it to work pretty well.

 

[Ceraton]

If you wanna start having an idea of what a kava will be like before you buy it, start learning about chemotypes and kavalactones. I've found it to work pretty well.

You guys wouldn't mind leading to the direction of where I might find a document that holds the information to chemotypes? And also, I don't plan on getting the munchies, I was just intrigued by the stone kava and what it did to the guy. I remember having 2/3 cup of Koniak and felt the opposite of hungry with the friendly nausea.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

The chemotype is a 6 digit number that represents the prominence of the 6 major kavalactones in each plant, from greatest to least. The first three numbers are usually much more prominent than the final three.

Kavalactones:
1 = demethoxy-yangonin aka DMY ("Double Bonded")
2 = Dihydrokavain aka DHK ("Double Bonded")
3 = Yangonin
4 = Kavain
5 = Dihydromethysticin aka DHM ("Double Bonded")
6 = Methysticin

Double bonded kavalactones are longer lasting and thought to be responsible for the heavier and more sedating effects. "5" most of all, is often more nauseating but can produce more of a full body buzz/sedation.
# 4, Kavain, is regarded as the most desirable. Somewhat energizing and mildly euphoric. #2, DHK, is also common and seems to be kind of like a mixture of #4 & #5. The rest are a bit of a mystery. A kava's effects are actually the result of the mixture of different effects from the proportions of all the kavalactones. Not much is known about their individual effects if they were to be consumed alone.

So, for example, if the root material tested to be:
(254)631 ... that makes it very high in double bonds. Remember the first three are the most important. You could assume that this would be a heavy and sedating kava, since it has high anount of DHK & DHM.
If a kava is listed as:
(463)251 ... There are no double bonds in the first three. You can assume this kava would be light and heady.

 

[verticity]

The chemotype is a 6 digit number that represents the prominence of the 6 major kavalactones in each plant, from greatest to least. The first three numbers are usually much more prominent than the final three.

Kavalactones:
1 = demethoxy-yangonin aka DMY ("Double Bonded")
2 = Dihydrokavain aka DHK ("Double Bonded")
3 = Yangonin
4 = Kavain
5 = Dihydromethysticin aka DHM ("Double Bonded")
6 = Methysticin

Double bonded kavalactones are longer lasting and thought to be responsible for the heavier and more sedating effects. "5" most of all, is often more nauseating but can produce more of a full body buzz/sedation.
# 4, Kavain, is regarded as the most desirable. Somewhat energizing and mildly euphoric. #2, DHK, is also common and seems to be kind of like a mixture of #4 & #5. The rest are a bit of a mystery. A kava's effects are actually the result of the mixture of different effects from the proportions of all the kavalactones. Not much is known about their individual effects if they were to be consumed alone.

So, for example, if the root material tested to be:
(254)631 ... that makes it very high in double bonds. Remember the first three are the most important. You could assume that this would be a heavy and sedating kava, since it has high anount of DHK & DHM.
If a kava is listed as:
(463)251 ... There are no double bonds in the first three. You can assume this kava would be light and heady.

I don't mean to be pedantic, but DHK and DHM are actually "single bonded":

Notice that DHM and DHK do not have the double bond in the middle, nor the double bond on the left of the ring on the right.
From Lebot's book:

This is a classification of KLs by whether they have double bonds between the carbon atoms labeled 7,8 and between 5,6. Notice that DHK and DHM are in fact the only ones that have single bonds in both positions.

 

[verticity]

To answer the original question, I'm enjoying the waka from bestfijikava.com, nice and heady, very slightly sedating, and you can't beat the price.

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

@verticity , i never studied chemistry so i really don't know the proper terminology. all i know, is that as long as i've been on the forum, they were always referred to 'double bonded', so i've taken to it too.
if this indeed wrong, i guess we should clear it up once and for all.

what is the proper term ? are they long chain kavalactones ?
the assumption, i suppose, was that since they have a base of the singularly named kavalactones, PLUS an added 'dihydro' or 'demethoxy', that it equated to double bond. Those names and what they actually represent are meaningless to us who haven't studied chem. Drop some knowledge and kavapedia that shiz.
My blind assumption is; longer name = longer chemical = longer metabolising = longer effects
although, i'm sure there are chemicals that completely negate that train of thought.

 

[Bula Kava House]

Hey guys,

Fellow Kava drinker Eric, here. I am out of my Koniak blend.

I'm getting payed Friday so I will have enough cash to buy whatever you guys suggest. Suggest anything, say anything, or tell me that x has a deal for y or y gives z effects that will make me feel z. Because right now, I am really in the mood for getting good kava. I feel like buying everything...with the limited amount of cash I have right now.

I have a couple of side questions for recreational use.

1. Which kava personally gives you strong anti-anxiety effects?
2. Which kava personally gives you strong heady effects?
3. Which kava personally gives you strong numbing effects?
4. Which kava personally gives you strong Euphoric effects?
5. Which kava personally gives you the munchies?
6. Which kava personally is easier to swallow in terms of taste, bitterness, or sweetness? (I don't mind the taste...kind of)
7. Which kava personally gives you less of a nausea effect?

I understand that certain kavas affect certain people in different ways so that some effects may be lighter or stronger for certain individuals.

I don't know the rules of kava forum and hope that this doesn't break any rules for posting, because I just really want to find any kind of kava to experiment with.

From what I read, every different brand of kava is a different experience.

I will be glad to hear what two-cents you guys have to throw in.

Cheers!

Bula, @Ceraton! We have some great Cyber Monday deals coming up at Bula Kava House. We've always focused on having a wide variety of kava choices that are high quality, at a reasonable price. For a headier/euphoric/uplifting kava Borogu, Waka, and Nambawan are all very good choices. For more of a body effect, consider Boroguru or the one you're drinking now, Koniak. For a nice well rounded kava, Melo Melo and our limited edition kava, Nangol Noble would be good choices.

If you look now, Boroguru and Melo Melo are out of stock on the website. They are en route from Vanuatu though, and will be available later this week.

FYI, our most popular varieties right now tend to be Koniak and 11 Year Waka, which is a micronized kava.

Feel free to send me an email at [email protected] if you have any questions.

Judd

 

[Niko]

I currently have Stone from N@H, and It's pretty damn awesome. Even being a newbie, I can highly recommend Stone.

Someone suggested me to try out Nene from GHK, which I will be buying on Thursday.

I look for highly sedating In my Kava (nighttime), so my two suggestions were recommended to me for just that

 

[verticity]

@verticity , i never studied chemistry so i really don't know the proper terminology. all i know, is that as long as i've been on the forum, they were always referred to 'double bonded', so i've taken to it too.
if this indeed wrong, i guess we should clear it up once and for all.

what is the proper term ? are they long chain kavalactones ?
the assumption, i suppose, was that since they have a base of the singularly named kavalactones, PLUS an added 'dihydro' or 'demethoxy', that it equated to double bond. Those names and what they actually represent are meaningless to us who haven't studied chem. Drop some knowledge and kavapedia that shiz.
My blind assumption is; longer name = longer chemical = longer metabolising = longer effects
although, i'm sure there are chemicals that completely negate that train of thought.

The "dihydro" I think refers to hydrogen atoms, so it means there are 2 hydrogen atoms at positions 7 and 8, so there can't be a double bond. I guess you could call them "saturated" kavalactones. Actually the only place I've seen them referred to as double bonded is kavalibrary,
so..

 

[Prince Philip]

OK, given your situation, and the danger you face of an eternity in New Jersey, I recommend you find the most highly processed kava you can obtain. I think GHK has some outstanding micronized kava, but I cannot vouch from personal experience. My own experience is with this stuff. "I can feel my brain melting" is what I said, and I meant it.

I would avoid Tongan. What, you say? Prince Philip avoiding the most unique kava he has ever tried? Alas, Tongan requires a highly ratio of root to water to "Tong." It's just as good as any other kava in a ratio of one cup of root to one gallon of water, but in a ratio of 1.5 cups to one gallon, it "Tongs." To "Tong" is to experience the feeling of having a really great idea, the emotional experience of an epiphany. Imagine how Stephen Hawking felt when he discovered Hawking Radiation. Now, imagine having that feeling but not having the idea. Oh, Tongan, you so silly!

 

[sɥɐʞɐs]

The "dihydro" I think refers to hydrogen atoms, so it means there are 2 hydrogen atoms at positions 7 and 8, so there can't be a double bond. I guess you could call them "saturated" kavalactones. Actually the only place I've seen them referred to as double bonded is kavalibrary,
so..

Well, unfortunately, if this is misinformation that has been spreading...it's been happening online and on the forums, before KavaLibrary existed. This (incorrect) terminology has been used by vendor's and consumers alike, for years.
For example, here's Adil from PK in 2012:

Here's Judd on 11 yr. Waka:

-The Kavasseur: http://kavasseur.blogspot.com/2012/02/vanuatu-kava-store-coconut-kava.html
-http://www.ultimatekava.com/2013/12/kavalactones-and-chemotypes.html
So, apparently, most kava's are actually 'high' in double bonded kavalactones and tudei's would be low.
If pedantic you will be, please go all the way and help us officially correct the understanding and terminology 100%, so we can start spreading the correct info. "I think refers to..." and "I guess you could call them..." isn't quite official enough, if correcting errors is the goal.

 

[verticity]

OK, I'm not a kava expert, so I'm afraid I can't give the official word. I read about "double bonded" kavalactones here, and I believed it, too; it seemed to make sense that DHK and DHM are chemically distinct from the other KLs, evidenced by their heavy effects. But then I went back and looked at Lebot's book, and other academic sources, looked at the diagrams of the molecules, and I did not see these double bonds everyone was talking about, so I was like "what the.." and "but I thought..".

So first, let me explain what those pictures of molecules mean. They are diagrams of organic molecules, which means they are made up of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen atoms primarily, sometimes nitrogen or a few other things; But KLs are just carbon, hydrogen and oxygen. The letter "O" represents an oxygen atom. "C" represents carbon, and "H" represents hydrogen. But also, chemists are lazy, so they generally don't show all the carbons and hydrogens explicitly. Every vertex in a diagram like that represents a carbon atom. The hydrogens are usually not represented at all, but there are hydrogens attached to each carbon atom (that has less than 4 bonds to other atoms), so that each carbon atom has four bonds. It may be bonded to four other atoms, for example, here is methane (showing the hydrogens explicitly) because there is only one carbon atom):

Methane is just a carbon bonded to 4 hydrogens. Like I said, the vertices of the diagrams can represent carbon atoms, so here is propane, explicitly showing the atoms:

(Obviously I suck as an artist) So propane is 3 carbons with attached hydrogens. Notice that each carbon atom is bonded to four other atoms. This is also propane:

There is one carbon at the bend in the line, and one carbon each at the ends of the lines. The hydrogen atoms are implicit.
Now, carbon always wants to form 4 bonds, but some of those can be double bonds, Each double bond counts as two bonds (duh), so carbon can only bond to two other atoms if it is double bonded to something. Example, here is propene:

It has a double bond, represented by 2 lines. This is also propene:

Another thing to know is when you see a benzene ring which looks like this:

Those things that look like double bonds are actually not really double bonds, because the electrons are delocalized over the whole ring, so it's like the whole ring partakes of one big circular bond.

So finally we come to kavalactones. Here is dihydromethysticin:

Lebot's book classifies KLs by whether they have single or double bonds at the locations with the red arrows above. Different KLs have different combinations of single/double bonds at those sites. It so happens that DHK and DHM have single bonds there.
Here is methysticin:

Crappy picture, but you can see Methysticin has a double bond where dihydromethysticin has a single bond, but they are otherwise identical.
If you look at the diagrams of Kavain and dihydrokavain, you'll see it's a similar story.

My apologies to the original poster of this thread; poor guy just wanted recommendations for kava to buy, got a full-on chemistry geek-out.