Dermopathy, and it's disappearance.

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

No I meant about double bonded kavalactones causing dermopathy.

Yes there is some research on this and it did show that the double bonded kavalactones do contribute to the dermopothy more than the others.
I will look for the published paper and then give you the link to it. Let me know if you have any questions, aloha.

Chris

 

[The Kap'n]

Don't doubt Mr. Hodge here. He'll buy 100 lbs just to prove a point. I believe they refer to him as a "baller".

 

[Deactivated Account]

It's starting to make more sense why @nemo never gets it from fresh root in Vanuatu.

I still can't put my finger on it. Fresh kava is just so well suspended in the water & is a green (ie straight out of the ground) mash when mixed.

You are drinking a watered down sap not a suspended powder. Its like a cordial.

Ive drank a lot of fiji powder & vanuatu & they will all give me skin dryness in varying degrees every time if i drink them over 5-7 days. I dislike that so much that i will not really pursue getting hold of powdered quite often.

What really baffles me is why other countries dont make it fresh also such as fiji/tonga/hawaii etc. You just dont get skin worries & its a lot stronger. That & it tastes better.

 

[HeadHodge]

Don't doubt Mr. Hodge here. He'll buy 100 lbs just to prove a point. I believe they refer to him as a "baller".

Damn Straight.
(but I believe the proper term is ball buster)

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

No I meant about double bonded kavalactones causing dermopathy.

This is one but not the one I was thinking of, when I find the other one I will post that also-----
A clinical pharmacological evaluation of DHM found that doses of 300 to 800 mg per day produced a scaly skin rash in a high percentage of subjects.
(Keller F, Klohs MW, A Review of the Chemistry and Pharmacology of the Constituents of Piper methysticum)
Aloha.

Chris

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

I still can't put my finger on it. Fresh kava is just so well suspended in the water & is a green (ie straight out of the ground) mash when mixed.

You are drinking a watered down sap not a suspended powder. Its like a cordial.

Ive drank a lot of fiji powder & vanuatu & they will all give me skin dryness in varying degrees every time if i drink them over 5-7 days. I dislike that so much that i will not really pursue getting hold of powdered quite often.

What really baffles me is why other countries dont make it fresh also such as fiji/tonga/hawaii etc. You just dont get skin worries & its a lot stronger. That & it tastes better.

We actually do drink a lot of fresh root here in Hawaii. A lot of my friends drink fresh root 95% of the time. I have wondered why they do not drink fresh root in Tonga and Fiji. It is known that they drink the powder instead of the fresh root.
Aloha.

Chris

 

[violet]

@HeadHodge You could try toss-and-washing medium grind Mo'i as compared to the micronized, but maybe use twice the amount of regular grind to make up for the lack of makas in the micronized.

 

[Deleted User01]

@violet. Perfect solution Violet. What is powder except a medium grind with Makas. Maybe Hedgie could stick the Powder in a Coffee Grinder (the cheapie kind, not a burr grinder) and give it a whir to get it finer. Then toss and wash, Makas and all. The extra Fiber will help him with other issues so it's a "win win". Then @Deleted User, our resident Kava Scientist, can put him on "Dermo Watch" to see how that goes. Brilliant, just Brilliant.
I can watch him for signs of Kava Zombism, yellow eyes, alligator skin, etc. Nice one Violet.

Hey, how about Toss and Wash with Tuday? Then we can also watch for signs of Hepatoxicity. Like Hedgie said, it makes no sense to feed it to Lab Rats and say it causes it in humans. We need to test humans and Hedgie has gracefully volunteered. But baby steps, start with Moi first.
Hedgie, I'm in for Dat. I already take Tuday to control my "eating Urges". I'll keep ya company. Anyone have a liver home testing kit? @Deleted User?

 

[violet]

I will say that when I toss-and-washed some noble medium ground kava, it made my guts incredibly uncomfortable, just sick and miserable. Effects sucked too. I don't think you would need to super grind the powdered, unless it's the makas that account for the bigger chunks, since the makas are harder than the rest of the root. I just used a small sieve to separate out the finest ground matter until I got a tablespoon or so. Drinking it mixed with water wasn't much different than getting down micronized. I know that for me, drinking whole noble kava with the makas included was a horrible experience that I won't do again. Squeezing that same kava resulted in a much different experience, thank goodness.

 

[kavadude]

This is one but not the one I was thinking of, when I find the other one I will post that also-----
A clinical pharmacological evaluation of DHM found that doses of 300 to 800 mg per day produced a scaly skin rash in a high percentage of subjects.
(Keller F, Klohs MW, A Review of the Chemistry and Pharmacology of the Constituents of Piper methysticum)
Aloha.

Chris

Oh neat, this is more recent. I figured that @infraredz wouldn't have missed anything in his dermo article and I don't think he did., this is just newer. In that case, it would explain the difference people are finding between tudei/noble.

 

[HeadHodge]

@HeadHodge You could try toss-and-washing medium grind Mo'i as compared to the micronized, but maybe use twice the amount of regular grind to make up for the lack of makas in the micronized.

That's a good idea, thanks
I thought though that micronized was just a finer ground of powder. So I'm wondering if the Mo'i regular grind has the makas removed too. If not I would also be wondering why not. I guess I'm just confused about the process to make each. I understand that instant is a whole different ball game, but it seems that micronized and regular would be the same other than the grind.

 

[kavadude]

No, regular doesn't, because you're gonna be straining it anyway (presumably).

 

[HeadHodge]

No, regular doesn't, because you're gonna be straining it anyway (presumably).

Yeah sure but does the regular have makas in it so that even if you do traditional prep you would presumably extract some of what's in the makas???

 

[kavadude]

Yes it has makas. You would extract some of the kavalactones in it but not the insoluble fiber.

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

That's a good idea, thanks
I thought though that micronized was just a finer ground of powder. So I'm wondering if the Mo'i regular grind has the makas removed too. If not I would also be wondering why not. I guess I'm just confused about the process to make each. I understand that instant is a whole different ball game, but it seems that micronized and regular would be the same other than the grind.

HI HeadHodge, all the medium grind kava has the makas in it and it needs to be strained out. The process for my micronized starts when the kava is still fresh and wet, the ending process is when it is dry and then I micronizes it, this is a propitiatory process that nobody else does. All other micronized kava has the makas in it, I can smell it and taste it when I try them and I can feel the effects that I don't like. I have tried as many different micronized kava I can find and none are like mine. And as you said the instant is processed in a different way so there is no makas in it at all. I hope this helps you to understand about my kava and others kava and makas and where makas is and how to get it out. Aloha.

Chris

 

[Gourmet Hawaiian Kava]

@HeadHodge , here is some pictures that will show you the makas that I take out and the rest of the stuff that I keep in the kava.---
This picture is of the kava pounded and pulped with the makas and all.---


This next picture shows me holding up the makas in my hand---


This picture shows just the good stuff with the makas separate on the bottom of the picture, these makas I will make into compost, the rest is what I dry up and grind into a micronized powder.---

Let me know if you have any questions about makas and kava. Aloha.

Chris

 

[HeadHodge]

@Gourmet Hawaiian Kava thanks much for the replies. Maybe I should try asking a different way about what I would like to experiment with. What I'm really looking for is "anything" that is exactly the same but with one batch containing makas and the other no makas. That way I feel like I could do a semi-controlled test if one has more propensity towards dermo than the other. So maybe I could get some regular grind of something, one with makas the other without?? It doesn't have to be micronized, because I do get dermo with regular grind prepared the traditional way too.

 

[Deleted User01]

Like Violet suggested, get some micronized and some medium grind of the same strain. Medium grind DOES contain Makas. If you really want to compare them, grind down the Powder as fine as you can. Now you can toss and wash both. I would take them in 2 different sessions though. When the Makas "get ya", you don't want to be blaming the micronized. You can even take the same exact quantity of each on successive days and prove if the Micro is 2 times more potent or not. Sounds like a worthy experiment.

 

[kavadude]

I concur with @violet btw -- drinking makas sucks terribly. (I'm not particularly fond of micronized for a variety of reasons, but at least the immediate effects are enjoyable)

 

[Roaddog]

Like Violet suggested, get some micronized and some medium grind of the same strain. Medium grind DOES contain Makas. If you really want to compare them, grind down the Powder as fine as you can. Now you can toss and wash both. I would take them in 2 different sessions though. When the Makas "get ya", you don't want to be blaming the micronized. You can even take the same exact quantity of each on successive days and prove if the Micro is 2 times more potent or not. Sounds like a worthy experiment.

I pretty much agree with what he said. Much love. Roaddog....